Repower or buy new?
Forums Archive Index > Outdoor Power Equipment > Repower or buy new?
Author: chrisexv6
Date: 12 Dec 2006 9:47 am
Currently have a 1986 or 1987 Bolens 824 snowblower. The engine is an 8 HP Tecumseh. Ive rebuilt the carb several times, it runs OK but I get an occasional sputter, etc. I figure at 20 years old, it might be time to upgrade.
My question is, would it be worth it to repower this blower, or buy a new blower? Never had any problems with the mechanicals of the blower itself, and I still believe they dont build em like they used to :) so getting an equivalent blower might be a little expensive (surely more expensive than a replacement engine). Parts for the blower itself seem readily available (a la MTD), and I feel comfortable fixing it myself if the need arises.
I was thinking I would wait until the end of the season to see if I could find a good clearance deal (like an Ariens 926 LE, etc), but Ive talked to some folks "in the know" locally, and they said our dealers dont really give huge discounts (they are small enough dealers that they only have 1 or 2 in stock even at the peak of the season, so they dont take up much space and dont feel the need to dump them on sale). I dont want to buy from the big box stores, Id prefer to leave such a big purchase up to a dealer that I know will take care of me. Which leads me to believe the best price vs. value thing to do would be repower the existing blower.
Any thoughts? Also, if I decided to repower, are there any direct replacement Tec. engines to replace the existing SnowKing? 20 years old, so obviously there are better engines now (OHV, etc)........if a better engine would fit, I wouldnt mind paying for it.
Thanks in advance.
-Chris
Author: SnowPro
Date: 12 Dec 2006 10:16 am
Hi Chris!
My opinion would be to repower the machine. You are right, they don't make them the same anymore. Your Bolens is from an era that the machines were built heavy and to last forever. I have a couple of machines in my fleet that are of that vintage that are used commercially and don't show any signs of giving up. Now that being said, the engines have been replaced, but the structure of the machine itself is just fine.
Simplest and cheapest would be to get a new Tecumseh 10-11 hp engine and bolt it right on.
Next....my choice would be to spend a little more and get a B&S Intec Snow engine, 11hp. You MAY have to redrill the mounting plate on the machine as the mounting holes on the engine are different from the Tecumseh. I say MAY as the holes might be there already. Many machines from back then had the deck drilled to accept both the Tecumseh or the Briggs engines.
I would say again though that repowering is the way to go. You say that the machine is in good condition, and you appear happy with it, so a few hundred dollars versus a couple thousand for MANY more years of service, is the way to go.
Hope this helps.
Ken
:tc:
Author: chrisexv6
Date: 12 Dec 2006 10:21 am
Thanks for the reply!
The more I think about it (and the more people such as yourself encourage me :) ), repowering may be my decision. I figure at worst case Id replace small parts on the blower itself, it still wouldnt cost as much as a new blower (I have heated handgrips, cant believe Id have to buy an Ariens Pro to get another with heated handgrips).
As far as engine choices, this blower was available as a 10/32 model. However, the 10/32 model used a different auger pulley setup (basically a double pulley off the crank with 2 belts to spin the auger). If I wanted to step up to a 10/11 HP engine, would I need to get the dual-pulley setup? Really wanted to avoid any additional work.
Ive found a decent deal on an Intek Snow 7.5 or 7.75HP engine. A little less power than exists, but I doubt Im really getting a full 8 HP anyway.
-Chris
Author: SnowPro
Date: 12 Dec 2006 10:39 am
First you have to determine if you have a 1" shaft or 3/4" shaft on the engine. Second, the pulley that is on the engine right now is a double, meaning that it has one belt for the auger and one for the drive, right??
Don't be concerned about the setup for the bigger machine, just because I reccommended a larger engine. The older machines that I mentioned i have had 8hp engines originally, and now have 11hp engines.
The intec engines you mentioned would be a great upgrade and you would definately see performance gains as compared to the old engine.
You are right about the nickel and dime parts in relation to a whole new machine. And, yes, you would have to step up to a pro machine to get what you have today.
Ken
:)
Author: chrisexv6
Date: 12 Dec 2006 10:48 am
Any easy way to figure out what size crank is on it? I have the Tecumseh part no for the crank (33365B).
The current engine also has an alternator installed........now Ive swapped out B&S engines before, and the hardest part was the electrical (first figuring out which alternator I needed, then actually doign the swap). I cant imagine it getting any easier with changing brands as well.
-Chris
Author: SnowPro
Date: 12 Dec 2006 10:57 am
chrisexv6 wrote:
Any easy way to figure out what size crank is on it? I have the Tecumseh part no for the crank (33365B).
The current engine also has an alternator installed........now Ive swapped out B&S engines before, and the hardest part was the electrical (first figuring out which alternator I needed, then actually doign the swap). I cant imagine it getting any easier with changing brands as well.
-Chris
Easy to measure the crank size by pulling the belt cover off and measuring the inside of the pulley.
I don't know about the 7.5 hp B&S but the 11-13 hp engines come with the wires and the alternator already in place. You just plug it in, or splice the wires, and done.
Ken
:)
Author: chrisexv6
Date: 12 Dec 2006 11:30 am
Yeah I guess I can do it that way too :) Just wondering if I could find it without looking.
I dont think Ill be repowering it this season, just in case I find a deal on a blower at the end of the year.
I guess as my backup Ill pull out the 18HP Bolens tractor with 38" snowblower attachment ;) Only reason I dont use it normally is that its massive overkill (but the attachment only cost $150.00 so how could I go wrong :) ).
-Chris
Author: SnowPro
Date: 12 Dec 2006 1:05 pm
Hey Chris,
Good luck with which ever direction you decide to take. Sounds like you are not under any pressure on this. You do have a "backup" plan. :P
Hey.........anyway........we were just bouncing ideas around, someone else may pick up some stuff from the exchange.
Ken
:)
Author: chrisexv6
Date: 12 Dec 2006 1:51 pm
Yep, thanks. Funny how the back up plan is a 38" attachment powered by an 18HP tractor :)
If I use it hopefully my wife can take some pics. The first season I used it, I actually threw snow clear across the street into the across-the-street neighbors driveway. Good thing she wasnt looking at the time.
-Chris
Author: Garandman
Date: 14 Dec 2006 2:38 pm
chrisexv6 wrote:
Any easy way to figure out what size crank is on it? I have the Tecumseh part no for the crank (33365B).
The current engine also has an alternator installed........now Ive swapped out B&S engines before, and the hardest part was the electrical (first figuring out which alternator I needed, then actually doign the swap). I cant imagine it getting any easier with changing brands as well.
-Chris
You can measure the pulley or put an adjustable wrench on the shaft and measure it.
I vote repower - see pic. I bought a 7.5 Intec Snow and it's quiet and smooth. I think I'd go for a 8-10 if you can, though.
Author: Majorxlr8n
Date: 14 Dec 2006 6:01 pm
Chris - to check the shaft size, find an open end wrench that fits snugly over the crank. Chances highly are its a 1 inch snout.
You would need to remove the old pulley from the Tecumseh & mate it to the new power plant. Also, the crankshaft height might be different, meaning that you may have to add shims to move the engine higher to obtain the same crankshaft centerline height, or even get different belts. The chute turn crank mechanism may also have to be relocated.
If your trusty, old Tecumseh isn't burning oil, why not treat it to a new carb, ignition tune up, valve job & head gasket? Thats a LOT cheaper IMHO...
Marty
Author: mml4
Date: 17 Dec 2006 9:36 am
Hi Guys!
I own that machine as well! Mine is badged as a TroyBilt and was built for them by Bolens before Mtd bought them out.
That machine has all the goodies:True drive differential,massive cast iron gear box,bronze gears, heavy gauge steel(8hp/24" auger weighs 290lbs).
This kind of over built design is not available today.
Don't get me wrong-There are some fine machines being built today but not better than what you already own.If yours is in good condition except for the engine than a repower or rebuild is the way to go.
Before I would dump the old engine I would suggest a compression check. It might only need a carb rebuild kit,points, plug,and condenser.
I have the parts manual for the machine so if you need help finding a part # it's no problem.
The engine on my machine has the #HMSK8014 5555 OUH
The Carb# is 1432K6Y
My understanding is that the short block is Tecumseh # 756316B and that the carb part# is Tecumseh 632334A.
Please note the discrepency between the carb #'s is the first # is on the engine tag while the second is a Tecumseh part catalog #.
Marc
Author: OldToroOwner
Date: 17 Dec 2006 11:01 am
Quote:
Currently have a 1986 or 1987 Bolens 824 snowblower. The engine is an 8 HP Tecumseh. Ive rebuilt the carb several times, it runs OK but I get an occasional sputter, etc. I figure at 20 years old, it might be time to upgrade.
Heck...you just described my blower... and probably half the people's machines on this board.
if I gave up on it because of an occasional sputter...I'd have sold it already!! :D
Seriously, if your engine is running well under load, and all the parts are in decent shape...why are you looking for a problem?
Now, if you're just worried about the engine blowing one day..OK..I'd say put a new or rebuilt one on...maybe do a new short block if everything else is OK..
As an aside, look at Garandman's blower...wow...
If you've got the talent, why not try doing some restoration work??
Quote:
Never had any problems with the mechanicals of the blower itself, and I still believe they don't build em like they used to..... Parts for the blower itself seem readily available (a la MTD), and I feel comfortable fixing it myself if the need arises....
Again..it almost sounds like you're trying to talk yourself into buying a new blower :wink: ..which is cool.... I like new machines, too! :)
Author: BigRigTech
Date: 17 Dec 2006 3:28 pm
I vote for repower too, just look at my old Gilson being brought back to life with a 16HP twin cylinder Brigg's....Overkill - yes - loud - yes - fun to run - oh hell yeah! :D
Author: sonofjabba
Date: 17 Dec 2006 9:16 pm
Repowering would be a great option, but your problem sounds like a carb problem, or maybe the spark plug lead could have a problem with the plug end.
Just a suggestion.
Author: BigRigTech
Date: 18 Dec 2006 5:49 am
I would run the old engine until it throws the rod, being a Tecumseh it's only a matter of time. :roll: :D
Author: chrisexv6
Date: 18 Dec 2006 9:17 am
Thanks for all the replies!
I think Ill repower it next season, but for now I tuned it up a little and it actually turned out that the plug gap was way off (dont know why/how). Put in a brand new (correctly gapped) plug, and it wouldnt even start anymore with the same needle settings (black smoke pouring out of the muffler). Reset to factory, fired right up. Changed the needles slightly from factory and it idles nice and seems to have plenty of power.
9 lashes with a wet noodle for not checking the plug gap!! The plug itself was OK, the gap was pretty bad (way too small).
Also have the tractor and snowblower attachment ready to go.......so if that works out OK, I might not even need the walk behind next year :)
-Chris
Author: sonofjabba
Date: 18 Dec 2006 12:04 pm
BigRigTech wrote:
I would run the old engine until it throws the rod, being a Tecumseh it's only a matter of time. :roll: :D
Nice!!!
Author: chrisexv6
Date: 18 Dec 2006 1:15 pm
Wouldnt mind if it threw a rod, then I wouldnt have to deal with the carb on it anymore!
I hope Tec got their act together with newer engines........the place I wanted to buy my Ariens from has the SnowKing engine version only. Really wanted the Briggs instead, the Tec carb annoys me (granted, its a 20 year old engine).
-Chris
Author: BigRigTech
Date: 18 Dec 2006 3:47 pm
Just stating a fact...LOL....It will grenade eventually. I gotta agree with you on the Tec carbs - a royal pain if you ask me....The Brigg's on my air compressor can be a little hard to start in the winter but it runs like a champ when it fires up....My Tec carb is a constant adventure - you need to frig with it while your doing the driveway to keep it running....I rebuilt it last year to spec and it still drives me nuts. It's my 2nd and last Tecumseh - when it blows up then all my "fleet" while me Brigg's powered. 8)
Author: sonofjabba
Date: 18 Dec 2006 4:08 pm
The Carb on my tractor isn't right either. I got another one to try rebuilding.. Another 15 bucks for another rebuild kit....
Author: Majorxlr8n
Date: 18 Dec 2006 4:16 pm
Tecumseh vs. Briggs Stratton, Ford vs. Chevrolet, Jets vs. Giants...
Does it ever end?!?
Marty
Author: Marshall
Date: 18 Dec 2006 4:59 pm
Quote:
(granted, its a 20 year old engine).
Can't be too bad.
There's a lot of those 20yr old Tecemseh's still out there. :wink:
Author: mrmom
Date: 18 Dec 2006 5:17 pm
Chris, now all you need is snow.
It's the 18th of December and kids were outside playing in short sleeve shirts today. Go figure!
Author: sonofjabba
Date: 18 Dec 2006 6:25 pm
I've had one Tec Grenade on me, and one get a knock.
I've only had one Briggs get a knock, and that was kind of my fault. The tarp I had on it was ripped and I didn't notice that the water was going into the engine. Young and Stupid.
Author: BigRigTech
Date: 18 Dec 2006 6:46 pm
I'm a brand loyal kinda guy, Brigg's have alway's been good to me and they are easy/cheap to repair on the rare occasion that they do quit on me....I'm also a diehard Ford man - I have 4 of them....I drive a 96 F150 4x4 super cab XLT everyday and I love it. I drive chev's at work and if you ask me there's no comparison - chev's just aren't built as heavy duty as the old Ford trucks and they can't haul as near as much weight as a Ford....just my opinion - let the flaming begin...LOL :wink:
Author: chrisexv6
Date: 18 Dec 2006 7:45 pm
Majorxlr8n wrote:
Tecumseh vs. Briggs Stratton, Ford vs. Chevrolet, Jets vs. Giants...
Does it ever end?!?
Marty
Funny you mention that.....Im a Chevy and Giants fan. Tec fanboys must be Ford loving Jets fans ;)
Another testament to Briggs vs Tec: search for Briggs carb on Ebay, you get a bunch of rebuild kits. Search for Tecumseh carbs, and you get a whole bunch of actual carbs :) I guess it IS just easier/cheaper to buy them new.
I have no problems with Tec if I knew their newer carbs were any better....but they have a lot to make up for after how much Ive had to fight their stuff so far.
-Chris
Author: Marshall
Date: 18 Dec 2006 8:15 pm
I don't think too many will argue the advantages of Tecumseh over Briggs but, that doesn't make Tecumseh a bad engine.
As for Ford vs Chevy, I've had multipe of both and each have their advantages. I like Ford's build and suspension on two wheel drives better than Chevy's but I like Chevy's engines. A thundering 6.0 V-8 that puts out 367 horsepower @ 5500 rpm & 375 lb.-ft. of torque @ 4300 rpm in a 1/2 ton truck! :shock:
4X4? I like em both.
Author: robmints
Date: 18 Dec 2006 8:46 pm
Mopar, Kohler, Ravens.
Author: sonofjabba
Date: 18 Dec 2006 10:36 pm
Buick/Caddy- Briggs - Eagles!
Tecumseh carbs never seem to be quite right after a rebuild. Briggs carbs tend to run better than new after one.
Oh and as far as trucks go I'm a Jeep guy!
Author: chrisexv6
Date: 18 Dec 2006 10:39 pm
Marshall wrote:
I don't think too many will argue the advantages of Tecumseh over Briggs but, that doesn't make Tecumseh a bad engine.
As for Ford vs Chevy, I've had multipe of both and each have their advantages. I like Ford's build and suspension on two wheel drives better than Chevy's but I like Chevy's engines. A thundering 6.0 V-8 that puts out 367 horsepower @ 5500 rpm & 375 lb.-ft. of torque @ 4300 rpm in a 1/2 ton truck! :shock:
4X4? I like em both.
You must be talking 2wd pickup trucks, because the Mustang leaf spring setup in the rear paled in comparison to anything Chevy came up with (muscle car + leaf springs holding the rear end from torquing = not so much muscle on the ground).
When my 98 Frontier 2WD was recently totalled (not my fault!), I looked long and hard at an American truck. Just couldnt bring myself to do it.....foreign cars have treated me better, and so did the original Frontier. So I got another Frontier. Not a bad little truck, new one is 4x4. But I park next to a gigantic F250 every day. Thing looks like it can fit my truck in its bed!
At least you arent an Eggles fan ;)
-Chris
Author: sonofjabba
Date: 18 Dec 2006 11:02 pm
I agree with you about the New cars and Trucks. I would never buy a new american car or truck. I'd take a honda or toyota anyday. I beat on my 15 year old corolla everyday and it asks for more.
I might be aquiring an older F-250 1981-86 body on wednesday. It depends on whether it has a computer or Non-Computer controlled carb engine in it. I have a dead '87 F-250 sitting it the driveway with a ton of great parts on it. I'm not a ford guy but it would be a nice project.
As for that Eagles crack. Sounds like something a Sore Giants Fan would say! :lol:
Author: BigRigTech
Date: 19 Dec 2006 5:47 am
Ford-Briggs-Patriots-Leafs. :dance:
Author: Marshall
Date: 19 Dec 2006 7:24 am
chrisexv6 wrote:
Marshall wrote:
I don't think too many will argue the advantages of Tecumseh over Briggs but, that doesn't make Tecumseh a bad engine.
As for Ford vs Chevy, I've had multipe of both and each have their advantages. I like Ford's build and suspension on two wheel drives better than Chevy's but I like Chevy's engines. A thundering 6.0 V-8 that puts out 367 horsepower @ 5500 rpm & 375 lb.-ft. of torque @ 4300 rpm in a 1/2 ton truck! :shock:
4X4? I like em both.
You must be talking 2wd pickup trucks, because the Mustang leaf spring setup in the rear paled in comparison to anything Chevy came up with (muscle car + leaf springs holding the rear end from torquing = not so much muscle on the ground).
When my 98 Frontier 2WD was recently totalled (not my fault!), I looked long and hard at an American truck. Just couldnt bring myself to do it.....foreign cars have treated me better, and so did the original Frontier. So I got another Frontier. Not a bad little truck, new one is 4x4. But I park next to a gigantic F250 every day. Thing looks like it can fit my truck in its bed!
At least you arent an Eggles fan ;)
-Chris
Yes, as I said, two wheel drives and, I'm mainly talking front suspension. But explain what you mean, both Ford and Chevy are leaf spring set ups in the rear, two and four wheel drive.
Author: chrisexv6
Date: 19 Dec 2006 7:48 am
I meant if you were talking about muscle cars :)
I dont know enough about trucks to know what the suspension setups are. My Frontier has leafs in back, for 2wd or 4wd versions. Lotta wheel hop goin on in 4WD.....apparently some "leaf spring helpers" available at AutoZone help out immensely.
-Chris
Author: Garandman
Date: 26 Dec 2006 10:21 am
We bought a 2005 Chevrolet Express van, now with about 20,000 miles on it. It's been flawless, and is getting 15-17.5 mpg. We've only had a few problems with our 2005 Nissan minivan, but the Chevy has been perfect.
It has an oil life system that's cool. First oil change at 8,925 miles as we drive it mostly highway.
Author: newjerseybt
Subject: American v. Foreign vehicles
Date: 26 Dec 2006 12:13 pm
The worst car I ever had was a 1981 Olds Toronado.
In the TWO years that I owned the car the right side electric seat broke, the electric antenna broke, the intake manifold cracked (aluminum), The chrome plating came off the dash, I lost radiator fluid constantly (could never find leak, the CV boots cracked, the left front roof pillar support rotted out and I had to make a fiberglass one,
the carb had to be replaced.
The question is do American car companies need to go out of business before they can see the "light"?
My Honda commercial mower has been very dependable so far. I hope my truck lasts as long as my mower. :)
Author: sonofjabba
Date: 26 Dec 2006 3:04 pm
Other than the transmission problem with my car 1991 toyota corolla which I found out was preventable.. It hasn't given me any real problems.
Believe it or not some of the most durable American cars were some of the late 1980's K cars with the Fuel Injected 2.2's and 2.5L cars. You could run the weenie out of those little cars. But like most american cars the interiors fall apart before the car itself does.....
As for the Nissan Quest, they seem to be the worst japanese van ever made. You also need to remember that they were also a Mercury villager.
Author: BigRigTech
Date: 26 Dec 2006 3:58 pm
I've had 3 Toyota's and the inlaws have 2 now...Very good cars they are, I really miss my 85 Toyota 1-ton pickup....7ft box and it could haul crap load of weight for a little truck....The inlaws aren't real impressed with their 01 corolla, have had some brake and a/c issues with it...The f-inlaw says that the jap's don't build a comfortable car...I tend to agree. My 96 F150 with captains chairs is like driving in a lazybozy....LOL...Hard to beat the domestics for a comfortable car/truck.
Author: ramit
Date: 26 Dec 2006 4:28 pm
loved my '80 yota 4x4... my parents are doing well with their 91' camry (but things like a trunk hood spring and window motor just went, they are getting to the point of not fixing anything that goes wrong with 160K on it).
My daughter's station car is a 90 celica.
In my last job, our secretary had a Toyota van with a V6, 1999 or 98, always under Toyota care. And they always recommended the extended change to her, so she told me.
Just before I left that job, her motor coked up and blew.
In searching the web, it seemed that one particular v6 had more than a few problems with coking up under extended changes. It's a shame. But even though Yota is on it's way to #1, they mess up too.
Yota's wouldn't offer up the info, they just gave her a big quote for a new motor. But harmed with the handfull of articles from the web she got the motor paid for.
It's a shame to here your inlaws are having issues with their 01 corolla.
Looked at the '06's. I was pretty impressed with the interior room of the 06 corolla's, for a full size guy like me, and optioned out still were under 19K. With great gas mileage to boot.
But even though the Japanese keep saying they have a full size p/u, they just aren't as "full" size as the American pickups.
The "mini's" pickups kept growing a few inches here and there every so often. Now I hear that a few or a couple of the import manufactures are going to make a "mini" pickup again.
Author: BigRigTech
Date: 26 Dec 2006 4:56 pm
Yeah, the f-inlaw say's their next car won't be a jap car. The M-inlaw doesn't put enough miles on it to need a longterm jap engine so he's gonna look at a GM or Ford - something roomy with power and comfort....He still won't touch a Dodge with a 10ft pole....LOL....My dad is the same way - neither have/would own a Mopar......I'm a Ford man but being a mechanic I can safely say all the car makes are junk - they have to be or the manufacturer's would never sell another car. :pound:
I'll stick with my trusty old pushrod 5.0 power F150 4x4, cheap to run and cheap to fix/rebuild.
Author: sonofjabba
Date: 26 Dec 2006 5:00 pm
I hear that! I'm looking for a Older Jeep Pre 1980 for my next vehicle. Something I can rebuild 4 million times over.
Author: ramit
Date: 26 Dec 2006 5:12 pm
sonofjabba wrote:
I hear that! I'm looking for a Older Jeep Pre 1980 for my next vehicle. Something I can rebuild 4 million times over.
LOL-- just what I was gonna say..
I'm not a gm person, but it's soo easy to get soo many repro parts... and soo many donor vechicles... get a pre-emissions base truck to start with and a create motor and the choices are huge.
The Jeeps are that way too, but you can even get a glass body!.. no body rust!
The I6 in the Jeeps were a great little motor, 200K motor.
Easy to fix, ton's of parts.
The GC biggest problem was the AC condensor and the uni-body if you got into a semi bad fender bender.
But you can spend 4K on a mid 90's with 100K and get another 100K out of it.
Author: BigRigTech
Date: 26 Dec 2006 8:38 pm
I was thinking my next truck might be a southern vintage F350 4x4, rust free and a solid front axle...having a 7.3T under the hood with a 5spd would be perfect.....If I could just get something totally rust free I can keep it that way for a long time and rebuilt ot over and over....New is nice but an old, reliable F-series with half a billion KM's on it is just cool. There's an old fella a few miles down the road from me with a 91 F150, 302/5spd with 527,000km on it and it runs like a champ....The engine has never been apart - not even for a head gasket. The old guy is trying to keep it cobbled up to reach the 600K mark before he retires it....LOL