Winter driving tips
Forums Archive Index > General Chat > Winter driving tips
Author: alleyyooper
Date: 30 Nov 2006 10:14 am
Watching the news this morning and seeing so many people stuck and unable to move. Got me to thinking what they should know about driving in that stuff.
I grew up in snow country then worked many years in ice country; I feel I do know some of the answers.
(1. Reduce tire pressure from 32 pounds to 28 pounds. For a short slow trip you can go lower, Like 20 psi. These pressures can be increased again when a nice weather forecast is for weeks.
(2. Extend the distance from the car/truck in front & in back of you. I know it is hard to control those behind you.
(3. Don’t drive the in the same slicked down tracks as every one else. Many times there is more traction off to the side of those tracks.
(4. Not so much with front wheel drive cars today but with rear wheel drive place the auto tranny in neural at stop signs and traffic lights as the rear wheels many times keep spinning and making ice under them.
(5. If you don’t have ABS brakes pump the brakes when stopping. With ABS brakes the computer does that for you. You can also steer in a skid with ABS brakes.
(6. Get some of those strap on chains and put them in the trunk, and on the front wheels of a FWD car when it is solid ice on the roads. Can’t drive fast but will keep you on the road and help stopping and starts.
(7. Buy a jug of bleach and keep that in the trunk too. It works great for heating up tires and helps with traction on ice. Bleach isn’t just for wash day and drag raceing.
(8. Do all the stuff the experts say to do also. Keep a bit of water, food, warmer clothes, blanket, flash lite and spare batteries, matches, candle, shovel and sand in the car some place
Have a safe enjoyable winter. Learn to snoshoe, cross country ski, take up snowmobileing and animal watching it nice to do in the winter too.
I also like to take pictures, frost on the windows is a favorite.
:D Al
Author: Paula
Date: 30 Nov 2006 10:48 am
Good timing Al - we're supposed to get hit tonight starting around midnight. Thanks!
Author: MissSnowshoveler
Date: 30 Nov 2006 11:04 am
I've always loved driving in the snow and I hate driving! :lol: Those are great tips to follow!
Sherri
Author: Marshall
Date: 30 Nov 2006 11:26 am
We got nailed last night with ice, and it's still pelting us as I type this. Around noon the snow is suppose to show up. Our weather is always ice first, then snow, makes driving tough.
Another tip: Use neutral when slowing to stop. It takes off all the torque that is generated to your wheels and keeps the car from wanting to push forward. Also, if you can start off in 2cd gear, it will help keep the tires from breaking loose.
Author: Highwind
Date: 30 Nov 2006 12:30 pm
Thanks Al.
Another obvious suggestion is to put snow tires on your car. I always drove with all seasons thinking they were fine, but snows are better.
Not too sure about deflating tires though. The problem that as the temperature drops the pressure does too, so could end up with severely underinflated tires. Combine that with forgetting to re-inflate them.
The car that I had with the narrow tires seemed to handle better on snow than the wider ones. Granted it was a much lighter vehicle too.
I've used cat litter as a traction aid on ice(do not use the clumping litter, it turns to grease) .
Author: Highwind
Date: 30 Nov 2006 12:37 pm
Another suggestion:
Take Paula with you when you travel in deep snow, for the obvious reason:
She has an erognomic shovel and she likes to use it. She can dig you out if you get stuck, while you sip a beverage from your emergency supplies, snug in your blanket in the car.
Bet this wasn't the first thing that came to most people's minds. :wink: :roll:
Author: alleyyooper
Date: 30 Nov 2006 1:21 pm
Yes the ones who lower their air pressure need to reinflate latter. But most people deflate when it is cold and a storm is forecast so the cold doesn't deflate them even more.
If going lower than 28 pounds you need to drive slow so the tires don't heat up to much.
But the bigger foot will help a lot.
Yes non clumping kitty litter is good stuff but does cost more than a tube of sand.
Yes I have a full set of 4 tire chains I some times have used on my 4x4 and gotten medicine and such to home stranded people. Have went thru drifts so deep I walked and poked them to make sure a car wasn't buried in it first.
:) Al
Author: alleyyooper
Date: 30 Nov 2006 1:40 pm
I really like winter.
Snowy evening entrance arbor to bee garden.
The next morning looking up our drive.
Entrance arbor to south garden.
Bee garden entrance arbor.
Across the veggie garden.
:) Al
Author: alleyyooper
Date: 30 Nov 2006 1:50 pm
Frost on grass in garden.
Frost in the trees.
Frost in the woods.
One of my dears. :D
Blue bird.
My baby girl enjoying a roll in the snow.
Ok enough.
:) Al
Author: alleyyooper
Date: 30 Nov 2006 1:52 pm
DAD!!!!!!!!!!!
:) Al
Author: Marshall
Date: 30 Nov 2006 1:57 pm
What's your Lab's name Al?
Beautiful pics!
Author: MissSnowshoveler
Date: 30 Nov 2006 2:07 pm
Oh that snow looks sooooooo nice. Here it's 10°C and going up into the teens tomorrow with rain. *SIGH* I've been wishing for some snow, but I guess I will have to break out the snow dancing gear and start dancing.
Sherri
Author: OldToroOwner
Date: 30 Nov 2006 2:59 pm
Good tips there. Al...
another couple of tips I always tell people is to make sure you carry a spare jug of windshield washer fluid in your car...I learned many years ago you can't drive where you can't see!!...and to make sure your wipers are in good condition...
Take it slow down hills also: shift the car into lower gear to avoid using brakes on a hill in snow.
Author: Termy
Date: 30 Nov 2006 3:49 pm
Good tips, as I see it, freaken common sence man, something that allot of people don't seem to have these days. :groan: Glad to see you have common sence though. :wink:
Author: Paula
Date: 30 Nov 2006 4:54 pm
Highwind wrote:
Another suggestion:
Take Paula with you when you travel in deep snow, for the obvious reason:
She has an erognomic shovel and she likes to use it. She can dig you out if you get stuck, while you sip a beverage from your emergency supplies, snug in your blanket in the car.
Bet this wasn't the first thing that came to most people's minds. :wink: :roll:
Uhh...Oh Windfulness?? I wouldn't be digging you OUT.... :roll: :twisted:
Author: OldToroOwner
Date: 30 Nov 2006 5:24 pm
Am I gonna have to seperate you two??!! :lol:
Author: bbwb
Date: 30 Nov 2006 5:32 pm
I disagree on lowering the pressure and wider contact patch. The wider tire decreases the psi to the pavement and thus lowers the traction. Narrower tires are better in the snow than wider. Also the pressure not being brought up (forgotten) will be very unsafe. The best bet is to use snow tires at all wheels (especially on FWD cars) the grip difference between snows and all seasons will make the car VERY uncontrollable in snow/ice conditions.
bbwb
Author: Paula
Date: 30 Nov 2006 5:36 pm
OldToroOwner wrote:
Am I gonna have to seperate you two??!! :lol:
Funny....that's exactly what I said to Windy about he and his family jewels.... :shock: :D
Author: alleyyooper
Date: 30 Nov 2006 6:31 pm
Jewel is a pound puppy. I named her baby, and called her that for a couple of weeks then relized I called my other to females baby too. Jewel is a shar pei labby mix, she just loves to roll in the snow and high grass. She is some what of a polar dog as she is for ever sitting on a snow bank and watching the blue birds down by the creek.
Yes the windsheild washer fluid is a great tip. Run out in a strange town and pay big bucks for some at a fuel stop.
We are forcast to get our first major snow tomorrow. Our temps the last 7 to 10 days has been in the high 50'sF and low 60'sF.
On the way home from checking some bees at an out yard today we saw an over turned SUV. Looked like they swerved to miss a squirrel and lost it on the wet road, slid into a deep ditch and rolled as it went up the oppsite bank.
Another tip, Hit the dam animal!!! No sudden changes in directions.
:) Al
Author: Marshall
Date: 30 Nov 2006 6:37 pm
Quote:
Another tip, Hit the dam animal!!! No sudden changes in directions.
Dead skunk in the middle of the road
Dead skunk in the middle of the road
You got yer dead skunk in the middle of the road
Stinkin' to high Heaven!
:D
Al, Jewel looks like a sweetie! Pretty dog too! :wink:
Author: alleyyooper
Date: 30 Nov 2006 7:06 pm
Thanks. At 70 pounds she still wants to be a lap dog.
:) Al
Author: ramit
Date: 30 Nov 2006 7:08 pm
bbwb wrote:
I disagree on lowering the pressure and wider contact patch. The wider tire decreases the psi to the pavement and thus lowers the traction. Narrower tires are better in the snow than wider. Also the pressure not being brought up (forgotten) will be very unsafe. The best bet is to use snow tires at all wheels (especially on FWD cars) the grip difference between snows and all seasons will make the car VERY uncontrollable in snow/ice conditions.
bbwb
I agree with you bbwb.
Al with all due respect, I do disagree.
Since we are talking safety I feel we should discuss.
I've got a lot of on and off road bad weather, snow and ice driving, trails , roads, highway.
And I use to live next to the Michelin man, no kidding.
Ok, his name was Micky, he was a test driver and the accident investigator for Michelin legal.
If you want to float on the snow, yes. Air down.
When driving on roads being plowed or salted, with ice and or snow. Or with inches of snow and you want to get down to the road bed...
The correct tire pressure for the tire/weight (for even tire life wear), keeps the tread open and in full contact with the surface as it's designed.
Reducing the air pressure causes the center of the tire to to start to concave in (hence why a low tire pressure the center of the tire doesn't wear as fast as the outer tread area), closing the tread, making the tread's leading edges less aggressive, and voids smaller. As well as decreasing the pressure per square inch of the contact patch by making it larger (it grows in width and length).
I have to say that 2lbs of air is well with in the tolerance of having 1 or 3 people in the car or a full or empty tank of gas.. And the accuracy of most air gauges.
But going down to 20lbs.. I think is very dangerous for a car in the snow/ice.
And with chains , a real dangerous thing. The chains wont ride correctly due to the increased defelection of the sidewalls. Increasing the tire heat on road.
I go down to 20lbs when I hit soft sand or need to tread lightly on sod, cause I need to float. It makes the difference of digging in the sand or floating on top of it. Snow acts the same way.
Airing down to 20lbs of air It's a huge difference in passanger rated tires or SUV/light truck tires. The sidewalls aren't stiff at all and easy "buldge more".
Correct pressure opens up the tread correctly, full contact of all the tread to the road surface, opens the voids up and presents more leading edges of the tread. Which on a M&S tire (still not as good as a pure snow tire) helps do it's best to bite on what it can on ice. The self cleaning feature of the tires works better too-chucking that snow out from under the tire.
Take the reason for putting more weight in the trunk of a rear wheel drive car. Doing soo increase the pressure per square inch of the contact patch.
Making the leading edges more aggresive due to the increased pressure.
Gaining more traction on the ice and snow.
If the foot print becomes bigger by deflating the tire, the tread closes up, the contact patch grows, spreading out the load, decreasing the pressure per square inch. The tread becomes less aggressive too. So floatation is greatly increased and aggressiveness is tampered, so the thread doesn't dig as effectively.
Author: Termy
Date: 30 Nov 2006 7:48 pm
WOW, now thats what I call informative! Thankyou Ramit for a once again educated post! :wink:
You can learn from this people, were talking science here, not superstition...LOL
Author: Highwind
Date: 30 Nov 2006 8:20 pm
Thanks for the explanation Ramit. Always felt that in normal driving in any condition the tires should be at the correct air pressure.
Remember the Ford Exploder and the low pressure Firestones saga.
Author: Highwind
Date: 30 Nov 2006 8:30 pm
Paula wrote:
OldToroOwner wrote:
Am I gonna have to seperate you two??!! :lol:
You mean a 1000 miles between us isn't far enough... It made me feel the family jewels were safe.
Funny....that's exactly what I said to Windy about he and his family jewels.... :shock: :D
:lol: Funny Paula... hahahaha... ouch! hahahaha... ouch!
Author: ramit
Date: 30 Nov 2006 8:37 pm
Remember it well. Terrible Terrible thing.
Ford actually pushed Firestone into a change it didn't agree with to help reduce weight in the tire to help reduce rotational mass.
The same reason why typically stock brake rotors are marginal.
The reduction in rotational mass increases gas mileage marginally.
But every 10th they get here there and every where, gets them 1-2mpg and helps them with the gov't mandate for fuel economy target for their corporate totals.
That's why the particular Firestones on the Explorers had such a problem and were soo prone to the failure from heat, from marginal under inflation. It's not like people rode them at 10psi.
And it's not that Explorers were/are unsafe, or Firestones are crap (just not my choice).. those very tires made for the Explorer were a compromised design.
Running under inflated is dangerous, BUT, those failures were way out of proportion to the norm.
Author: Marshall
Date: 30 Nov 2006 9:29 pm
I just bought my second set of Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 tires, 5 days ago. They've been the best tire I have ever had on a car. The Explorer tires were crap.
Author: ramit
Date: 30 Nov 2006 9:48 pm
Al, great pictures.
I never knew about the bleach trick.
Around here kitty liter is popular.
Firestone caught the short end of that one with Ford.
I really wondered if Firestone was going to survive it when it all hit the fan.
Like you, I know plenty of folks that love them on their cars.
Author: bbwb
Date: 30 Nov 2006 9:57 pm
I would question the impact of bleach being splashed up onto the paint :?
Kitty Litter or dry sand is the norm around here.
I generally have had good luck with (for snows) Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice, and Blizzak ZM22 for the truck.
bbwb
Author: Emmo
Date: 1 Dec 2006 12:34 am
I just bought a set of Goodyear Fortera's a month ago for my SUV. I don't have any snow experience with them yet, but the wet and dry performance is great. Snow performance is also supposed to be very good, especially for an "all season" tire...."Fortera TripleTred radials also meet the industry's severe snow service requirements and are branded with the snowflake-on-the-mountain symbol."
They are a HUGE improvement over the OEM Bridgestone Duelers.
Author: Marshall
Date: 1 Dec 2006 8:21 am
Quote:
Like you, I know plenty of folks that love them on their cars.
Yea, and they were the best of the tires offered in my size, which are few. You don't see too many 255-60-R15's any more. :wink:
Mo, I like those Goodyears!
The Firehawk Indy 500® tire pays tribute to the performance of the Firehawk Indy Racing® Slick. Engineered with UNI-T technology—adapted from some of the technology originally developed for professional drivers racing at speeds up to 200 mph. Excellent wet and improved dry handling make this S- and T-Speed rated tire ideal for all-season driving. With its attractive tread and sidewall design, the Firehawk Indy 500® tire looks like it performs—like a champion.
Innovative Tire Design -
A Comprehensive Tire Design Method
This method improves handling in wet or dry conditions and reduces irregular treadwear by combining an ideal tread design, casing shape, materials and construction.
Innovative Roundness - Rounder Is Better
Rounder overall tire shape provides better balance for wet or dry handling.
Innovative Compound - Longer Is Stronger
L.L. Carbon utilizes a special form of molecular re-engineered carbon black, a key factor in improving tire wear while enhancing wet performance.
Key Hole Sipes
Key Hole Sipes enlarge as the tire wears to help maintain like-new traction and appearance.
5 Degree Noise Reduction
Produces noise-canceling sound waves to significantly reduce tire noise on road surfaces.
Weathergrip
A tread compound that blends special polymers to promote traction on wet surfaces.
Author: alleyyooper
Date: 1 Dec 2006 9:21 am
I posted from my well over 50 years of driving experinces which does work for me. I fully under stand your feelings about tire pressure and agree that low pressures done wrong are life threating. Like the tire reps covering their butts againest law suits I should not assume people would use the low pressure correctly either. The firestone and ford thing is the second time in my life time that they have had reported tires. Old joke was to commit suicide correctly you needed a ford pinto and firestone 500 tires.
Tires on the back of a unloaded pickup won't show any concaveness at 20 psi.
Which ever works for you continue to do it.
When useing full tire chains I would never lower the pressure except to help tighten them up. Lower the pressure then install the chains as tight as you can get them. Roll them back and forth a few revs then tighten them again and reair the tires to get the cross links as tight as you can.
The bleach is poured on the top of the tire and allowed to run down the treads. It heats the tire allowing it to grip ice better. If you can drive so fast that bleach splashes on the paint you didn't need it in the first place.
These tips are mostly for emergencys uses like getting caught at work and want to get home. If traveling and the roads are that bad get a motel room and wait the storm out. Let the hyway depts. do their job properly.
:) Al
Author: ramit
Date: 1 Dec 2006 9:53 am
I like Michelins and Goodrich, most of mine are D or E rated truck tires in floatation sizes. Aggresive all terrians.
All that siping I see in both tires and leading edge from the blocking is what helps in the ice and wetness as I understand it.
The viods really help the snow removal and digging and self cleaning.
I had the OEM Bridgestone Duelers, on a Ford Bronco II, the worst tire I ever had. No performance anywhere. And I had two sidewall blow outs.
Author: ramit
Date: 1 Dec 2006 10:36 am
Al, I know what you mean.
I had a 3600 lb Toyota 4x4.
Ran 33x12.5 D rated tires on there, radial mudder.
Got 60K miles on them, still legal when the truck got totalled.
But getting close to the wear bars.
For proper contact and wear my normal pressure was just around 20psi.
Max pressure rating on the tire was I think 65psi @ 3650lbs!
So one tire could support the weight of the truck when filled to 65psi.
Hence why I had perfect even wear at 19 - 20lbs of inflation.
But not a good pressure if I were to load it up and or tow.
Since the yota truck wasn't built (let me clairify, I didn't build it for a work truck) for hauling or towing, I generally never ran more air, but would have for cooling and to deal with the added weight. But in some tough areas off road and very deep snow I've had them down to ~7-10psi. They became marshmellows and would nearly double in contact area and great for acting like a big hand to grab and wrap around rocks on the trail.
But on my 8Klb 1 ton Ram, entirely different story. On 33x12.5 E rated I run 55 in the front and 45 in the rear unload for even wear and proper contact.
When I haul and tow on the highway, all four go up to the max 65psi they are rated at. (the stock 255 E rated tires were rated at 80psi, so at 20psi they were marshmellows and the front almost totally flat under the weight of the Cummins. Ran them at 80psi when full loaded and towing in the highway).
With the 33x12.5 on the Ram, when off road sand, empty, fronts go down to 25 and rears to 20. The weight of the Cummins vs the weight not in the rear , it take 5 - 7 lbs to keep them about the same bulge and height.
When towing and hauling for camping off road, and hitting the sand, I go down to 18 in the front and 12 in the rear and trailer tires down to 20lbs.
But speeds are 5mph or slower, we're talking low range and 1st or 2nd gear!!
Author: alleyyooper
Date: 1 Dec 2006 11:55 am
Worst tires I ever owned are mounted by a lot of companys as standard shoes. Good year Wranglers AT.
I have refused to take delivery of a new jeep with those on it.
I love BF Goodriches the 12x15x31 on
9 inch rims on my CJ 5 and 7 I have ran them below 5 psi in the dunes and never used 4 wheel drive.
Have to look up some pre digital pictures.
:) Al
Author: bontai Joe
Date: 1 Dec 2006 12:12 pm
The only tips I can add is I fill a couple of large washed out and dry liquid detergent bottles with dry sand and screw the caps back on them and stick them in the trunk. I used to buy a bag of sand and just stick that in the trunk of the car, but it ALWAYS got a hole poked in it and made a mess. The spout on the bottle is big enough to allow easy pouring, and the cap keeps it from absorbing moisture. The food you pack in your car should be of a type that does not freeze, the blanket should be of a type that still offers insulation ability when wet (wool is decent, the typical down comforter is useless when wet). You should also have a rainproof poncho or rain suit or at minimum a couple of really big heavy duty garbage bags you can wear in an emergency and change the batteries in your flashlights so they are fresh. I have a 4 cell mag lite in the car, I always carry a 2 AA cel maglite in my pocket and I have a little 1 cell AAA mag lite attached to the zipper pull of my parka and ANOTHER on my keyring. A lot of lights you might ask? Yep! And I'm certain at least one of them will work when I have to change a tire in the rain at night in the boonies (I've done it more than once, and sometimes not even on my own car). Make sure the lug wrench in the car actually fits the lugs that hold your tires on, and that the spare actually fits your car, especially if you bought it used, or changed to aftermarket wheels, lug nuts, suspension parts etc. I can remember trying to help a couple of young ladies on the interstate with changing a flat tire. The one girl's boyfriend threw 3 full size spare tires in the trunk before the 2 girls left, non of which fit the car AND the lug wrench didn't fit the lugs. The best I could do for them was get the little space saver spare they had hidden under the trunk floor mounted, using my 4-way lug wrench and my jack..... both of those ladies were SO happy to be back on the road.....hmmmmm that was a pleasant memory.... I almost moved to North Carolina that time...
I always remember the rule taught me many years ago taught to me by the honorable Chief Three Beers of the Like-anookie tribe... the rule of THREES:
You can live without air for 3 minutes.
You can live without shelter in a bad climate for about 3 hours. (your car will usually provide you with decent shelter from wind, rain, & snow)
You can live without water for about 3 days
You can live without food for about 3 weeks.
Pushing it the the limit in each case above is very unpleasant! and like most rules of thumb it comes with no garantees expressed or implied, use it at your own risk.
Author: Marshall
Date: 1 Dec 2006 12:34 pm
Quote:
Goodyear Wranglers AT.
True POS!
Quote:
BF Goodrich All Terrain/Mud Terrains
Excellence!
Goodyear's MT is pretty bad azz though.
Author: bbwb
Date: 1 Dec 2006 12:42 pm
Al, I agree that emergency situations are different than overall winter things. To avoid breaking through the snow, yes airing down will help in that regard.
Whenever we are travelling out of town in the winter, we make sure to do the following:
-Always leave with a full tank of gas and gas line deicer (not the yellow bottled Heet only the red bottles).
-Extra hats, gloves, and boots.
-Carry a sleeping bag for unexpected stranding.
-Survival kit with the food items listed above including several candles for heat and of course matches.
-A small folding military shovel for scooping/digging
-Cell Phone with auto charger
-Flashlights
With any luck there is still room in the trunk for suitcases and duffle bags.
Many years ago, I remember a bag storm that hit Fargo, ND. In that storm, people leaving a basket ball game got stranded on a city street (near the airport and "unpopulated") and wound up dying due to CO poisoning from running the engine and not having adequate ventilation in the compartment. :( The next day the drifts were easily 10 ft deep in this area. The snow removal crews had to snake through this area to avoid chewing up buried cars.
bbwb
Author: ramit
Date: 1 Dec 2006 12:45 pm
alleyyooper wrote:
I love BF Goodriches the 12x15x31 on
9 inch rims on my CJ 5 and 7 I have ran them below 5 psi in the dunes and never used 4 wheel drive.
Have to look up some pre digital pictures.
:) Al
I could imagine how floaty the Jeep CJ would be down at 5psi( much lighter than my yota).
With the 33x12 on the yota, down at 10 psi didn't need 4wheel either.
But I could tread "lighter" in some areas with it.
I love the AT and the Mudders.
On lighter trucks I had better success in the deep snow off road with the mudders. Got the ATs 30 x 9s on my Jeep GC now.
Need a lift for anything bigger... been toying with the idea, but money and time is tight.
Just miffed that Goodrich didn't have a E rated floation size tire in either style. I'm getting on 30K on my PJs and this will be the last winter for them. Got 30K out of the stock Michilens.
Joe, the sand brings back memories.
My wife's 78 mustang was so bad I kept 100lbs in the trunk.
We had such bad icing one year. Partial melting of the snow, afternoon a quick freeze and major sheets of ice... had 400lbs worth of 50lb bags in the back of the van... the driveway ice was soo bad. But more so I'd open up the back doors of the van, cut some bags open every few days and sand the driveway. Just kept going back and buying more bags and keeping them in the back of the van and resanding the driveway. What a mess it was that year.
Keeping the kitty liter or sand is great for the added traction due to the weight but also comes in handy if you get stuck to put under the tires after you dig yourself clear but still need traction.
Good tip on the lug wrench to. I've seen that too.
Never mind a mistake or buying a used car and it's just not there.
When the dealer "upgrades" the wheels and hub caps to RIMs. The lug nuts are changed to. I haven't seen a single dealer yet, check that the car lug wrench for fit.
Author: Marshall
Date: 1 Dec 2006 2:32 pm
If anyone wants great value tire that gives terrific performance as an all terrain tire that leans toward mud and snow, check out the Kelly Safari MSR.
I had these on an F150 and was very pleased with them. The tread depth is huge and it's an aggressive tire, as an all terrain goes. They clean very well and give good traction, they also have a stong sidewall. Think mine were 265/75/16's load range D. They were a tall tire at almost 32".
It might be Dirt Road Magazines favorite tire.........
Dirt Road Magazine..........Say you took the self-cleaning lugs of a perfect mud-terrain tire, added some siping for better traction, a quieter ride and longer tread life, then made the tire narrower for better handling and a lower overall weight. That's exactly what Kelly has done with their Safari MSR 33x9.50x15 tire.
Our first concern about the much-narrower-than-normal tire was traction. Our fears were fast allayed, however, when we got them off-road and down to 8PSI. The Safari MSR performed very well under numerous terrain conditions, and never got us stuck. They are very impressive.
On the road, they behave extraordinarily well on both wet and dry pavement. The additional weight-savings over 33x12.50's is very welcome, especially with our 4-banger. The Kelly Safari MSR is available in many popular sizes, including 30x9.50x15, 31x10.50, 35x12.50, and even more LT sizes.
Is this the perfect off-road tire? It very well could be. Only time - and a trip to Moab - will tell. I will say this; right now, it's our favorite tire.
http://www.dirtroadmagazine.com/kssafari.htm
Author: ramit
Date: 1 Dec 2006 2:44 pm
alleyyooper wrote:
Worst tires I ever owned are mounted by a lot of companys as standard shoes. Good year Wranglers AT.
I have refused to take delivery of a new jeep with those on it.
:) Al
The only 3 set of stock tires from the factory that were worth anything were...
The Ram's stock Michilens. Not big enough for off road, but were tough as nails and good in the rain and better than I thought in the snow and even off road. Just too small and could do nothing in the mud.
Taraus, Continental. There's was nothing about them to made me want to change them. No flats, all good behaivor.
Altima, Generals. Almost as good as the Continentals. But the 2nd set didn't wear as well as the 1st. Same model and size. Then went to BFGoodrich Traction T/A H, a marked improvement over the Generals for sure.
But the Generals I had on the Pathfinder weren't good news from the start, but not as bad as the BridgeStones on the Bronco. Never did get around to changing them.
Author: ramit
Date: 1 Dec 2006 2:47 pm
Nice tread.
Kelly, that's a name from the past, back in the day, I use to get their snow tires for my Dodge Cornet and Dart.
They were great snow tires, out lasted the cars.
Author: bbwb
Date: 1 Dec 2006 5:33 pm
With those two cars that does not say much :lol: An ice cube on hot pavement lasted longer than the Dart/Cornet (at least in the rust belt states)
bbwb
Author: ramit
Date: 1 Dec 2006 6:07 pm
bbwb wrote:
With those two cars that does not say much :lol: An ice cube on hot pavement lasted longer than the Dart/Cornet (at least in the rust belt states)
bbwb
LOL,, actaully the ball joints wore out fast than the tin, on both.
It was like, do a tune and changed the ball joints. Never ended with them.
Coronet was sold with 160k miles on it and running well.
The Dart, well folded up like a new paper, when it de-accelerated from 55 to 0 in a foot.
Author: Marshall
Date: 1 Dec 2006 6:53 pm
Quote:
The Dart, well folded up like a new paper, when it de-accelerated from 55 to 0 in a foot.
A little boo boo?
Author: alleyyooper
Date: 1 Dec 2006 7:45 pm
Been running Cooper adventures on the CJ and the wifes Durango the last few years. Boy has them on his YJ too. Daughter is still running the Michilins that came on her 98 Wrangler I think she has near 100,000 on it now.
Yup wouldn't be with out a 4 way lug wrench. Still have to have two as the one for the big trailer won't fit the truck.
My favorite mode of transport in the winter. Traction can be inproved with 171 ice picks by woodys.
:) Al
Author: ramit
Date: 1 Dec 2006 8:29 pm
Marshall wrote:
Quote:
The Dart, well folded up like a new paper, when it de-accelerated from 55 to 0 in a foot.
A little boo boo?
(Driving into the sun) + (during sun set) + (truck cut me off) +( with no brake lights) +( 4 crappy polyply tires on Dart) + (crappy Dart 4 piston caliber brakes) x (young stupid driving to fast for condition of car and traffic) = one folded dart.
Author: mrmom
Date: 1 Dec 2006 8:53 pm
ramit wrote:
(Driving into the sun) + (during sun set) + (truck cut me off) +( with no brake lights) +( 4 crappy polyply tires on Dart) + (crappy Dart 4 piston caliber brakes) x (young stupid driving to fast for condition of car and traffic) = one folded dart.
How many G's did you pull?
Author: newjerseybt
Subject: Winter Safety tips
Date: 1 Dec 2006 11:04 pm
Just thought of a few more Winter safety checklist items:
1) Make sure you know how to remove your spare! Even if you are a male and think it is a breeze! lol Do a trial run. Sounds like a pain but.... I never owned a truck before and decided to see if I would have problems in an emergency. The truck I own is a 2004 Dodge Ram 1500.
First thing I learned is that things are not where you expect them to be.
The winch handle attaches to a mechanism located at an unknown distance through a tiny hole under the tailgate at a 15 degree angle to your right. If you don't know that, it may cost you your life under the right conditions as you will NEVER get the winch to work.
Secondly, the optional 20 inch tires weigh a ton. Very few women will be able to lift the tire enough to remove the cable through the center of the spare tire. If you cannnot do this, you may end up in serious trouble.
Third, the jack needs to be on a flat surface which is almost impossible to find in an emergency. I have a 1" thick 14" x 14" piece of A/C plywood for an emergency.
--------------
2) Reflectors last longer than flares, you may be there for a while. If you are next to a busy highway. Do not stand near you car. If you slid into something because of a dangerous icy condition. Chances are someone is going to do the same thing you did and run into your car.
3) If you are near areas with deer drive extra slow especially with snow on the ground. Yes you can say "heck with it" and run into one, BUT they can cause quite a bit of damage to your car or truck.
4) Select a tire with a soft rubber compound. They do not last as long but grip better as they have a higher friction constant.
5) If you have a Maglite get an upgrade kit. The LEDS are much brighter than a filament type of bulb. Home Depot carries the 2 and 4 cell lamp upgrade but not the 3 cell. You will have to go online for that one.
6) If you are stuck in a blizzard be aware that snow covering your exhaust pipe may cause carbon monoxide fumes to get into the interior of your car so when you go to sleep it may be permanent.
7) Save an old cell phone and 12v cord. Even though you may have disconected your service, 911 will still work and many phone companies can locate you by your signal.
8) Make sure your air conditioner is working. The combination of heat and dry air will keep your windows much clearer when driving then just a plain heater/defroster.
9) In a safe area, clean your headlights off once in a while. That salt and ice will cut down your visibility by quite a bit.
10) Even cold Campells soup with a pop top lid is better than nothing. Don't forget a metal spoon. You may be able to heat it on the exhaust manifold.
-----------------------------
A gallon of fresh water and waterless handcleaner is handy. Don't forget to keep some "Baby Wipes" in the glove compartment.
One for the men: A few extra disposable cups can also come in handy. heh heh
Author: ramit
Date: 1 Dec 2006 11:50 pm
mrmom wrote:
ramit wrote:
(Driving into the sun) + (during sun set) + (truck cut me off) +( with no brake lights) +( 4 crappy polyply tires on Dart) + (crappy Dart 4 piston caliber brakes) x (young stupid driving to fast for condition of car and traffic) = one folded dart.
How many G's did you pull?
I don't know.
But all knobs from the dash controls and the radio were in the back seat.
So the resulting shockwave was something else to.
Author: ramit
Date: 1 Dec 2006 11:55 pm
Al,
I've never had the pleasure of trying a snowmobile. Looks like a blast.
No where to run them here legally , even if the snow stuck around long enough. People locally buy 'em and sell them after a year or two. Then buy Quads to run illegally in the street when it snows. They're like snow gnats, no lights, on a dark street, I've nearly squashed a few of them.
I see two oil burners...
Still have both?
TDR member?
-Bob
Author: Marshall
Date: 2 Dec 2006 12:33 am
Were you hurt Bob, besides your pride?
Author: EGreen
Date: 2 Dec 2006 1:01 am
Guess I'll post about my Favorite Tires, so far these have been great on the big caddy:
P3000 Cinturato M&S by Pirelli. The combination of the better than average All Season Tire and the heavy car make this pretty good, they are starting to get worn now (hey both my dad and I can be at times a bit aggresive in traffic and my brother needs to get to school on time) but they have performed great, very good in the rain, snow is the best you can expect from a non-winter tire. Price at around 90 each its a great bargain for the tire you get.
Click to Enlarge:
"Pirelli Cinturato P3000 M+S, specifically designed for the North American market, represents Pirelli's response to the touring all season category. Snow traction is achieved through the use of special tread compounds, increased tread depth, and hi-density siping. The product features a smooth, quiet ride, Pirelli quality and performance, along with attractive sidewall lettering. An extensive size range in both whitewall and blackwall sizes, assures availability on the most popular American cars in the touring category.
Tread pattern
Increased tread depth combined with high density siping and an optimized tread compound provide safe traction on both wet roads and snowy conditions along with exceptionally long tread life. Segmented mould construction along with two zero-degree nylon cap plies assuers high levels of uniformity and a stable footprint during driving maneuvers. Polyester casing ensures smooth ride and crisp handling."
Author: Bill_D
Date: 2 Dec 2006 3:54 am
I put a 2.5 ton floor jack under the rear seat of my Avalanche, and under the 3 rd seat of my wifes Tahoe. I had a flat last summer in my AV, and the stock bottle jack, never used before mind you, failed, and couldnt lift the front of my truck enough to get the tire off the ground. I had to have my wife pick me up, and go home and get my garage 4 tonner(as she couldnt lift it into her car), and drive all the way back, and change it. I went to the dealer the next day w/ their crap jack, and they offered to replace it free under warranty, I said no thanks. Bear in mind I could of called GM free roadside assistance to change it, as it was still under 3/36, but guys dont really do that, right??? Anyways, heres a pic of how I mounted it in mine, I put some foam rubber pads between the jack, and where it hits the seat frame, so it wouldnt rattle. I hopew I never need it, but it makes for a quick lift if I do. :wink:
Author: Marshall
Date: 2 Dec 2006 8:40 am
Hellofva deal Bill! I hate the damn Chevy jacks anyway.
Which reminds me, a couple of can of Fix-A-Flat is always a good idea to carry.
Author: alleyyooper
Date: 2 Dec 2006 9:33 am
First oil burner was a 91, loved that truck. Was getting to many tickets with the stealth (summer car) so kare said to trade the stealth and sell the trunk and get a new oil burner. I had been wanting a second gen any way. Went to a different dealer took a truck off the lot that looked pretty. Had missing parts, dealer sucked big lemons and I never got to liking the truck other than it being pretty.
Finally Dodge cam out with the SRW ton truck so I traded the 98 for my 2004.5 at my old regular dealer. Love the 2004.5 but still miffed at the stupid engineers. First oil burner was some thing like 145 HP ran 354 rear with a 5 sp tranny. Great milage going and coming from work at 20MPG. Free way to the cabin many times got over 24MPG.
Todays truck is 325 HP with a 6 sp tranny and 373 rear is all you can get. You would think with all those horses it could pull 354's. Well at least the 18MPG AAR is a lot better than the 98 with a 410 and 5 speed. The 2004.5 just plays with the equipment tri axle trailer with 2 5000 pound tractors and the sled shed.
:lol: :lol: I am for ever trying to go from 6 gear to 7 and 8th.
Not a big fan of TDR but am a forum member. I am how ever a big fan of DTR, http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/index.php
:) Al
Author: EGreen
Date: 2 Dec 2006 9:49 am
Marshall wrote:
Hellofva deal Bill! I hate the damn Chevy jacks anyway.
Which reminds me, a couple of can of Fix-A-Flat is always a good idea to carry.
Sometime this year I had a real nasty flat, hit something metal, took the air out of my tire, I thought my muffler went the sound of air coming out was so loud but then I saw all the smoke and my tire ripped apart, going 70 that can be a hard car to control with a tire down, got to the shoulder, these are some after picks I took, silly me didn't take a picture of the big gash in the tread from the large piece of metal the sliced it:
Needless to say I was happy I learned how to remove and use my jack and donut tire :)
Author: ramit
Date: 2 Dec 2006 10:38 am
EGreen,
I've heard soo many people suggest carrying some sort of floor jack instead. It's a good idea.. more so the prices are fairly reasonsable for one for a car's weight now a days. The little narrow sizzor jacks or bottle jacks are dangerous.
The only time I had to change a tire on the road is with the BridgeStones, twice, blew all out to all heck, looked like your tire. But I didn't drive on it too far. POS.
The only thing that has made it through the E rated tires or the goodrich D's are nails, and they never leaked. Usually found them while cleaning the truck, plug them up and fine.
I carry a plug kit, not one of those auto store cheepies, and a compressor in the truck.
Author: ramit
Date: 2 Dec 2006 10:38 am
Marshall,
Walked out of it. Never wore a seat belt back then. Folded the stearing wheel column up into the dash, and all of that almost through the windsheild. Must of put a dent in the floor pan/firewall from the rush to jam the brake peddle to the floor. I think that, and holding the wheel at like 8 and 4, braced me well and is what caused me to stay in, and fold the dash. I think the folded dash is what de-accelrated me well too. Knees never hit the bottom of the dash. Not a bruise, found some cuts later from glass.
I could see not shooting the piece much, but of course you have to once in a while, that's the fun of it. Cool you can get ammo. I don't shop in the 9mm area of the stacks of ammo so never ran accross it.
Just typical 22, 38,357, 45. And it's been ages.
I find it amazing designers choose to change the lenght of the case 1mm for a new caliber for a tweek. I mean I know why and they do it all the time.
Author: ramit
Date: 2 Dec 2006 10:55 am
alleyyooper wrote:
First oil burner was a 91, loved that truck. Was getting to many tickets with the stealth (summer car) so kare said to trade the stealth and sell the trunk and get a new oil burner. I had been wanting a second gen any way. Went to a different dealer took a truck off the lot that looked pretty. Had missing parts, dealer sucked big lemons and I never got to liking the truck other than it being pretty.
Finally Dodge cam out with the SRW ton truck so I traded the 98 for my 2004.5 at my old regular dealer. Love the 2004.5 but still miffed at the stupid engineers. First oil burner was some thing like 145 HP ran 354 rear with a 5 sp tranny. Great milage going and coming from work at 20MPG. Free way to the cabin many times got over 24MPG.
Todays truck is 325 HP with a 6 sp tranny and 373 rear is all you can get. You would think with all those horses it could pull 354's. Well at least the 18MPG AAR is a lot better than the 98 with a 410 and 5 speed. The 2004.5 just plays with the equipment tri axle trailer with 2 5000 pound tractors and the sled shed.
:lol: :lol: I am for ever trying to go from 6 gear to 7 and 8th.
Not a big fan of TDR but am a forum member. I am how ever a big fan of DTR, http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/index.php
:) Al
Yea, you were a victim of the power wars.
Still, it's something else to have that power with the economy.
18mpg is also a lot better than you'd get with a gasser big block with it's shorter life compared to the oil burner.
I wouldn't have guessed you would have been riding in a little road rocket sled, with seeing all the oil burners in your pictures.
"You would think with all those horses it could pull 354's."
So you were hoping to order 354s?
I think they left them all for the autos.
The 354 was a very common gear set for the autos.
It seemed like a few years ago every one came out with something inbetween 354 and 410.
I didn't know Dodge stopped offering the 410's.
I haven't window shopped for a truck in a few years.
LOL--- just gotta get ya a different knob with the 7th and 8th on it.
Should fix ya right up.
I've heard of the other forum, never read thru it. I'll have to take a read through.
Author: Marshall
Subject: FYI
Date: 2 Dec 2006 11:57 am
Here's why.........
"Although the given dimension was 9 mm, the bullet was actually 9.3 mm in diameter, being shorter and wider and therefore incompatible with pistols chambered for the popular 9 mm Luger/Parabellum round. This meant that Soviet ammunition was unusable in NATO firearms, and NATO forces in a conflict would not be able to gather ammunition from fallen Soviet soldiers or Soviet munition stockpiles."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makarov_PM
Author: ramit
Subject: Re: FYI
Date: 2 Dec 2006 1:28 pm
Marshall wrote:
Here's why.........
"Although the given dimension was 9 mm, the bullet was actually 9.3 mm in diameter, being shorter and wider and therefore incompatible with pistols chambered for the popular 9 mm Luger/Parabellum round. This meant that Soviet ammunition was unusable in NATO firearms, and NATO forces in a conflict would not be able to gather ammunition from fallen Soviet soldiers or Soviet munition stockpiles."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makarov_PM
Very cool!! I thought the bullet OD was the same.
More than just a tweak for a frame design.
That makes a lot more sense.
Author: Kenhomeowner
Date: 3 Dec 2006 10:32 am
(Driving into the sun) + (during sun set) + (truck cut me off) +( with no brake lights) +( 4 crappy polyply tires on Dart) + (crappy Dart 4 piston caliber brakes) x (young stupid driving to fast for condition of car and traffic) = one folded dart.[/quote]
4 piston caliber brakes sounds like a 340V8 car... too bad, theyre worth big bucks today.
Just my 2cents...
10 years ago my buddy's father in law was doin the speed limit when a SFA (stupid f#%&**@ animal) /deer tried to jump into the center of the road. He swerved while hitting his brakes. He hit a telephone pole, bad accident. His son who was with him is now a quadraplegic. Doesent get worse in my opinion. Maybe there was nothing else to be done but never swerve to avoid any animal. Do use the brakes. ALL tires can only do so much. You either swerve or hit the brakes. Doing both is asking alot for your tires to do and must be a give and take.
Use the brakes the HIT THE ANIMAL. I know theyre cute, they dont know any better. Im Maryland the problem with deer accidents got so bad 5 years ago that the local police had managed hunting off season to help with the overpopulation problem. Seems to work.
Ken
Author: alleyyooper
Date: 3 Dec 2006 11:28 am
Dodge still offers the 410. I figure I have enough horses and low enough tranny gears I can pull all I want here in Mich with 373 or better yet 354's. I would have even considered 323 for a rear gear with all these horses compaired to my 91. Maybe in the western mountians I would have went with the 410.
Kare and I both had pocket rockets. She still has her 93 beautiful black R/T Fully loaded minus the sun roof.I don't drive it either. Alas I got rid of my 94 silver R/T with the standard tranny.
When I get followed for over 10 miles and then get pulled over for not useing my turn signal when changeing lanes it is time to go back the the truck.
:) Al
Author: ramit
Date: 3 Dec 2006 12:32 pm
Kenhomeowner wrote:
(Driving into the sun) + (during sun set) + (truck cut me off) +( with no brake lights) +( 4 crappy polyply tires on Dart) + (crappy Dart 4 piston caliber brakes) x (young stupid driving to fast for condition of car and traffic) = one folded dart.
4 piston caliber brakes sounds like a 340V8 car... too bad, theyre worth big bucks today.
Just my 2cents...
10 years ago my buddy's father in law was doin the speed limit when a SFA (stupid f#%&**@ animal) /deer tried to jump into the center of the road. He swerved while hitting his brakes. He hit a telephone pole, bad accident. His son who was with him is now a quadraplegic. Doesent get worse in my opinion. Maybe there was nothing else to be done but never swerve to avoid any animal. Do use the brakes. ALL tires can only do so much. You either swerve or hit the brakes. Doing both is asking alot for your tires to do and must be a give and take.
Use the brakes the HIT THE ANIMAL. I know theyre cute, they dont know any better. Im Maryland the problem with deer accidents got so bad 5 years ago that the local police had managed hunting off season to help with the overpopulation problem. Seems to work.
Ken[/quote]
I'm soo sorry to hear about that.
I counted my blessings after mine, considering it was mostly my fault.
The cops that came to the scene didn't believe I was the driver, they thought I was covering for someone.
I had lots of problems with the 4 pistons... 1 or 2 would always seize and not move causing all sorts of problems.
I almost flipped a truck swerving to miss a dog. Minor evassion at first, and it was in the clear, got spooked by a car in the right lane and ran back in front of me and I swerved harder. He got under neath me anyway.
I got up on one side, saw pavement out the passenger side window, bounced up the curb off the divider on the two wheels.. Now stopped but, now seeing nothing but grass out the passenger side window... truck was balancing deciding which way to go, thankful back down on all 4, yea I was hanging out the driver's windows hoping to persuade it. Seemed like minutes. Now I slow down and stay straight.
We have a huge problem of dogs and cats.
They enacted a law that if you hit a cat or a dog it's now handled as a hit and run if you leave, you must stop and get the animal all the emergency care and pay for it. I love animals, but the poor animal... It's the irresponsible owners let run loose are really to blame. They dart out from between cars and buildings into the traffic. We have dense traffic. So they run scared.
A few miles away with the gov't property that's not fenced in, have lots of deer problems.
Author: ramit
Date: 3 Dec 2006 1:07 pm
alleyyooper wrote:
Dodge still offers the 410. I figure I have enough horses and low enough tranny gears I can pull all I want here in Mich with 373 or better yet 354's. I would have even considered 323 for a rear gear with all these horses compaired to my 91. Maybe in the western mountians I would have went with the 410.
Kare and I both had pocket rockets. She still has her 93 beautiful black R/T Fully loaded minus the sun roof.I don't drive it either. Alas I got rid of my 94 silver R/T with the standard tranny.
When I get followed for over 10 miles and then get pulled over for not useing my turn signal when changeing lanes it is time to go back the the truck.
:) Al
Ah gottcha
I have enough combo of flat and hills. Get to PA or upstate and it's all hills and ups and downs.
With the stock tires I had no complaints with the 354.
But when I went to the 33x12, I knew what I was missing when I hit PA or upstate going camping. Would now like the 410.. but the troque is alot more evened out now with the 33's for around town. Rear tires stay on the ground a lot better. I couldnt imagine 410 with the stock tires. If I had started out with the 33's on the 354's I wouldn't know what I was missing and it wouldn't be a thought.
The little rice burners and the new 'Tangs get pulled over all the time and followed around here. I've driven around with a inspection 6months over due a few times, never get pulled over.
Only once I got pulled over on the expressway, in the left lane with truck plates. The cop pulled me over.. "you guys think you can....." I asked "you guys"? He stopped his lecturing. He looked in the back (I got a topper on the bed that's tinted out), and saw nothing but a clean carpet and my two boxes, one for camping and the other for my towing stuff for the camper - I explained for him. I guess he expected it to be full tools or materials, like a contractor. He backed down and got nice. The local law is under 5500 curb net weight, get's treated like a car. Even if there's a load of cinderblock in the back. go figure. the regular cops don't do anything about overloads. Anyway he got nice and started asking about the weight on the reggie. I couldn't with a straight face act as if I didn't know the law about the weight, and knowingly say my truck was 5500lbs. Maybe I could say 6500 with a straight face, stripped empty. So I gave him the honest answers on curb net weight. I knew where he was going. I made a honest mistake (made it many times before), I would drive between 4-5 different vehicles at that time, and my truck was the only one restricted from the left lane, I forgot, morning commute.. I screwed up and took the ticket. 1 point and like 80bucks or something. The money hurt more than the point.
Author: EGreen
Date: 3 Dec 2006 1:08 pm
Actually the whole movement towards ABS and Stability Control Systems (SCS or general motors StabilTrax) is to brake and steer the vehicle out of trouble.
ABS actually makes braking longer than non-abs brakes, but most people don't know (including myself since I've never driven a non-abs vehicle but I think I got the theory down) how to use standard brakes.
Prior to ABS you really couldn't steer and brake at the same time, but the way the system is designed, once it kicks in, is to allow the driver to be hard on the brakes and take evasive action. Combine that with SCS which is designed to manipulate brakes and engine power to wheels that have grip to keep the car in the intended path, and you have a case for changing lanes quickly to avoid larger animals (not something small but I mean something that could cause you to lose control after hitting it, screw the rabbits and such.)
Most people don't even realize that SCS kicks in and think they just did a good job.
All new cars starting in 2008 (might actually be 2007) sold in the USA (some automakers are starting now) will by law require SCS by a federal mandate. Its just that good.
Info on that here:
http://www.gm.com/company/onlygm/safety/stabilitrak.html
Unfortunately it was optional equipment on Cadillacs when it was introduced to them...so all I have is Traction Control System (TCS) I think, will have to look at the option codes to find out but I really have been in a situation to find out if I have it :P
Author: ramit
Date: 3 Dec 2006 1:28 pm
EGreen wrote:
Actually the whole movement towards ABS and Stability Control Systems (SCS or general motors StabilTrax) is to brake and steer the vehicle out of trouble.
ABS actually makes braking longer than non-abs brakes, but most people don't know (including myself since I've never driven a non-abs vehicle but I think I got the theory down) how to use standard brakes.
Prior to ABS you really couldn't steer and brake at the same time, but the way the system is designed, once it kicks in, is to allow the driver to be hard on the brakes and take evasive action. Combine that with SCS which is designed to manipulate brakes and engine power to wheels that have grip to keep the car in the intended path, and you have a case for changing lanes quickly to avoid larger animals (not something small but I mean something that could cause you to lose control after hitting it, screw the rabbits and such.)
Most people don't even realize that SCS kicks in and think they just did a good job.
All new cars starting in 2008 (might actually be 2007) sold in the USA (some automakers are starting now) will by law require SCS by a federal mandate. Its just that good.
Info on that here:
http://www.gm.com/company/onlygm/safety/stabilitrak.html
Unfortunately it was optional equipment on Cadillacs when it was introduced to them...so all I have is Traction Control System (TCS) I think, will have to look at the option codes to find out but I really have been in a situation to find out if I have it :P
I think you did a good job of explaining it.
Different stability control systems do different things based on whats in the car.. springs or air suspension, electric power steering and soo on. As well as control throttle response.
If you lock up the tires, your right, you loose directional control through the tires and steering. And it becomes pure momentum.
So ABS went a long way to increasing control during a panic stop with most drivers.
With just ABS or no ABS, there were times when hitting the brakes is the wrong answer for avoidance. Now with the car controlling braking, acceleration, weight distribution, steering response in some cases, the person can do panic moves and not over drive the car.
Most over drive the car in evasive moves.
Knowing a little about software, and electronics and hardware. It's a dangerous thing. There will be accidents, few, but some based on unexpected behaviors that weren't experienced in testing and debugging.
One would think even while it's maturing it should save more lifes.
Author: Marshall
Date: 3 Dec 2006 2:03 pm
There's all kind of accident avoidance and hadling stuff on cars today.
Infinity:
Electronic Brake force Distribution (EBD)
To help optimize braking performance for a variety of vehicle loads, EBD adjusts the amount of brake force applied to the front and rear wheels for improved braking performance, reduced front-end “dive” under braking and more even brake wear.
Brake Assist (BA)
In emergency situations, many drivers don't brake hard enough, soon enough. Brake Assist monitors how you apply the brakes and, sensing emergency braking, applies maximum brake pressure for potentially shorter stops.
4-wheel Anti-lock Braking System (ABS)
4-wheel, 4-channel Anti-lock Braking System (ABS) to help the driver maintain steering control while braking.
Vehicle Dynamic Control (VDC)
A change in traction can affect your car's stability during cornering. VDC uses an array of sensors to help determine your steered path and to help keep you in control. If your vehicle begins to understeer (plow forward) or oversteer (fishtail), VDC applies appropriate brake pressure to individual wheels and/or reduces engine output to help keep both ends in line.
Traction Control System (TCS)
Senses wheelspin while accelerating and automatically reduces engine output and/or brakes the spinning wheel to help regain traction.
Lexus:
Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM)
While conventional vehicle stability features wait until a loss of traction has occurred, VDIM [1] can predict and take steps help to prevent loss of traction during a turn by employing multiple vehicle features. When a series of sensors detects a problem, the system is designed to use a combination of individual-wheel braking, throttle activation and steering assistance to seamlessly correct the situation before a skid actually occurs, helping the driver keep the vehicle on track. On slippery surfaces, Traction Control (TRAC) helps maximize the grip of each driven wheel separately to reduce wheelspin.
Electronic Controlled Braking (ECB) & ABS with Brake Assist (BA)
ECB uses an electronic system to activate the brakes, utilizing a brake pedal position sensor to read the pedal's position and activate the master cylinder accordingly. A sophisticated Anti-lock Braking System (ABS) helps maintain directional control even during hard braking. To help ensure that the brake pedal is pressed hard enough during an emergency stop, Lexus offers the added benefits of Brake Assist [2]. By monitoring how quickly and forcefully the brake pedal is pressed, this feature helps compensate by automatically applying increased braking boost until the pedal is released.
All this stuff is great. Myself? I would prefer a RWD car with just 4 wheel ABS and huge Bremo's and a good limited slip rear differential with an electronic locking option. Hell, I might want to slide through a corner. :wink:
Author: ramit
Date: 3 Dec 2006 3:03 pm
Flat tracking is FUN!
Author: EGreen
Date: 3 Dec 2006 7:46 pm
Marshall wrote:
All this stuff is great. Myself? I would prefer a RWD car with just 4 wheel ABS and huge Bremo's and a good limited slip rear differential with an electronic locking option. Hell, I might want to slide through a corner. :wink:
Many cars are actually going to open differantials and using the brakes to control it all, great for the street, not so good for racing.
Most performance minded cars (such as a corvettes or bigger cars with big engines that have gobs of low end) have "levels" of driver assist controls (That term captures all the ABS, SCS, etc terms) in conjunction with the locking/limited slip differantials. This lets you slide how much you want but wont let you slide as far as the point of no return. Basically lets John Smith drive like a champ :P
Most of what the companies have is nearly the same from one to the other, they just call it different names.
For example, my caddy allows me to turn off traction control, but it reverts to second gear starts, making it very hard to spin the wheels. This also prevents damage to the transmission and differential not allowing the wheels to spin to violently out of control in situations where rocking the vehicle is needed it would be very hard to do that with traction control on. It basically uses the brakes to lock the wheels to the same speed.
What we have to hope for is the automakers (and the government mandate) allow for this stuff to be turned off sometimes, cause we all want some fun at times.