Gas Cans
Forums Archive Index > Outdoor Power Equipment > Gas Cans
Author: ramit
Date: 29 Nov 2006 6:33 pm
I know we talked about it a bit last year.
GAS cans.
These new ones we are stuck with here in NY bite the proverbial big one.
There's no getting around that they don't stop the flow like they are suppose to, causing more of a hazard and even more of an environmental problem than they did before.
I travel a lot into NJ and CT....
Are you folks in NJ and CT stuck with the same no-vent cans?
All of the ones for sale in our area, have a hook on the end you catch on to the gas tank opening lip of the OPE. You let the weight of the can push back a sheath covering the nozzle that the gas comes out of and vents the can. When the level reaches the nozzle it's suppose to stop, or when you take the weight off the nozzle sheath hook, it's suppose to retract and stop the flow.. but it always gets jammed.
I had much better luck regulating the flow with my thumb on the vent on the old cans, than this garbage we're stuck with.
Author: newjerseybt
Subject: No vent...
Date: 29 Nov 2006 7:04 pm
I have a 5 gallon Blitz and that is a problem. I have tried to find a vented 1 gallon can for my 2 cycle gas. No good.
Another annoying problem is temperature changes. The sides of the can really get sucked in when the temps drop from 65F to 30F. You loosen up
the front cap to prevent this from happening but the next person using the can doesn't always check the cap before pouring.
Author: jubol
Date: 29 Nov 2006 7:16 pm
Delaware has the vented gas cans
How far are you guys from Delaware??
Fred :lol:
Author: newjerseybt
Subject: Delaware gas cans...
Date: 29 Nov 2006 7:36 pm
Unfortunately about 230 miles.
If I were living closer ...say Cape May NJ, I would buy everything in Delaware. No sales tax. I would save $120 just buying one professional sno-thro even if crossing the bridge is 10 bucks! :wink:
Author: ramit
Date: 29 Nov 2006 7:53 pm
Fred, your lucky. These new cans are terrible
Yea, I'm even further being on LI.
My new can did the same the NJbt...
samething.
Author: Bill_D
Date: 29 Nov 2006 8:26 pm
I bought a 14 gallon gas caddy from Northern Tool, andI love it. I found it for $99 Has a gas station style hose, fill up is a breeze for everything. Recently found out my wife has been stealin a few gallons for her Tahoe here and there when I wasnt lookin. :x :x Proves 2 things, it's easy to use, and my wife is very lazy. Anyways, I will try and dig up the link to it for ya.
Author: ramit
Date: 29 Nov 2006 8:50 pm
Bill
I know the one you speak of.
I thought maybe it was gravity feed. But apparently not by how it's getting used to subsidize your wife's weekly full bill !
How does the 14 gallon one you have move the gas?
I had a little 4 gallon one that had a pump in the handle.. you squeezed the handle lever and it operated a bellow. It pumped a nice volume of gas. A few squeezes and the lawn mower was filled. But it didn't last long before it died. The bellow in the handle started leaking all over.
-Bob
Author: Bill_D
Date: 29 Nov 2006 9:29 pm
Bob, it is indeed gravity fed, but still easy to use, and has a nice steady heavy flow. The cap turns to the left slightly and is marked vent, then ya just fill(somehow Peg Bundy here figured it out. :evil: ). I was skeptical to how it would work when I bought it sight unseen, but compared to some of the pneumatic 300-400$, I gave it a whirl. So far so good, and really nice nut runnin out w/ the 5 gallon once a week or so.
Author: ramit
Date: 29 Nov 2006 9:58 pm
5 - 7 gallons usually last me the summer.
7 - 10 gallons over the last couple of years for the winter.
But how does it gravity feeds to the gas inlet on the GM?
I've seen the gas caddy in the magazine, stands up, fuel hose at the bottom connect to the nozzle if I remember right.
Doesn't seem tall enough to work on gravity alone?
:?
Author: Bill_D
Date: 29 Nov 2006 10:17 pm
Well my garage is slightly raised about 8"s above grade, so I guess that helps somewhat, as caddy is at edge of garage and truck is on apron, but even still I dont think that helps as much as the weight of 14 gallons of fuel at roughly 8lbs/ gallon, goin into a small hose and still traveling up hill slightly, dunno, but it does. I've noticed filling up other things, pressure does go down as level decreases, so I suppose not ideal to fill vehicles up w/, but lawnmowers and such o.k. Now ya got me thinkin about a way to hook up a low pressure line off my main shop compressor, and viola~ I should get even pressure regardless of level!! In fact I think if the snow storm we are supposed to get misses us, I will try that and post a pic over the weekend. 8)
Author: AJace
Date: 30 Nov 2006 1:57 am
I still have the old style with the vent on the back. I've never used the newer style cans and never knew how they worked until Bob explained how they do. Bob, you're very good at explaining in my opinion. Some stores sell the gas nozzle the you screw on the front and pull the nozzle up which retracts back into the can when your done and screw the lid over it. Walmart sometimes has them. I wish they made a vent you could put in after drilling a hole in those new no vent cans and then just screw one of those pull out nozzles onto a no vent can and there you be.
Author: newjerseybt
Subject: Non vented gasoline can safety issues....
Date: 30 Nov 2006 9:04 am
I found this interesting company memorandum on the internet...
---------------------------------------------------------
This memorandum provides information pertaining to implementation of the gas can replacement program in the region. Since June, local jurisdictions and State officials have been in communication with COG staff. The purpose of the communication has been to discuss concerns raised about potential fire safety issues with the new gasoline containers.
Additionally, local jurisdictions have been requesting information on procurement of gas cans for county use. Safety Concerns The Fairfax County Fire Marshal’s office was notified by county employees that there may be a problem with the plastic CARB-compliant gas cans. Under high temperature, there is a potentially unacceptable pressure build-up inside the container because the cans are not equipped with an automatic venting mechanism. Upon cooling, a vacuum condition can occur. In either case, serious deformation of the container is possible.
It is believed that container deformation is a problem because it can cause the bottom of the container to become rounded so that the container rolls over, and/or the seams of the container rupture. An official from the Fairfax Fire Marshal’s office (Skip Hile) met with Bob Renkes, a member of NFPA (the standards organization that handles standards on use of gasoline containers). It was agreed at that meeting that Fairfax County could prepare a request for a “Temporary InterimAmendment” from NFPA to clarify the venting requirements for small consumer gas cans. It was noted however that the problem may not be with all of the CARB-compliant cans, so testing could help determine if the problem applies to all manufacturers. Skip Hile indicated he would be conducting tests with upwards of 40 different can types. In August, Skip Hile conducted tests to gather further information about how the available CARB- and non CARB-compliant containers perform under high temperatures. Preliminary results indicate that CARB compliant cans that do not vent can sustain pressures of up to 5.5 psi. All non-vented cans did deform, with variability in the degree of deformation noted across the different can manufacturers. Skip Hile reports that based on the results of this test, the Fairfax County Fire Marshal’s office may not pursue an Interim Technical Amendment, but may 1
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MWAQC TAC Item #8 recommend that cans from one particular manufacturer (Scepter) not be approved for use in Fairfax County. During the tests, the gasoline containers from this manufacturer deformed more than 3 inches, experienced serious vacuum deformation upon cooling, and had very rounded can bottoms such that the cans would no longer sit upright. The Fairfax County Fire Marshal’s office also intends to report the results to the Consumer Product Safety Commission. The tests also indicated that vented cans did not deform, but depending on the nozzle style, released gasoline liquid and vapor under high heat conditions and pressure build up. During discussions with the owner of Blitz (the largest gasoline container manufacturer in the United States), COG staff determined that the gas can manufacturers have formed an association, based in Sacremento, California. Blitz reports that the industry is aware of the problem with the containers becoming deformed due to pressure, but stated that the cans are designed to withstand such pressures. The manufacturer also stated that ruptures should only result if there is a manufacturing defect. He noted that CARB is aware of the concerns being raised by consumers and the Fire Marshall offices and that CARB may be revising their regulations within the next year to address many of these concerns. There is a meeting within the next two weeks between the association and the California Fire Marshal’s office. Virginia’s regulation requiring that only CARB-compliant cans be sold in the state will take effect on January 1, 2005. Procurement Jurisdictions should ensure that gas cans provided to county or municipal employees for official business are OSHA approved. This means that the cans should be metal “safety cans”. The safety concerns noted above should not apply to use of safety cans. Currently, pending a decision on acceptability of plastic gasoline containers from the Fire Marshal, any CARB-compliant container is presumed to be acceptable for distribution to consumers. A bid sheet with an active rider has been circulated to interested jurisdictions.
Author: ramit
Date: 30 Nov 2006 2:17 pm
Bill_D wrote:
Well my garage is slightly raised about 8"s above grade, so I guess that helps somewhat, as caddy is at edge of garage and truck is on apron, but even still I dont think that helps as much as the weight of 14 gallons of fuel at roughly 8lbs/ gallon, goin into a small hose and still traveling up hill slightly, dunno, but it does. I've noticed filling up other things, pressure does go down as level decreases, so I suppose not ideal to fill vehicles up w/, but lawnmowers and such o.k. Now ya got me thinkin about a way to hook up a low pressure line off my main shop compressor, and viola~ I should get even pressure regardless of level!! In fact I think if the snow storm we are supposed to get misses us, I will try that and post a pic over the weekend. 8)
I saw a small 3 gallon can in one of the catalogs that looked like it had a small pressure hand pump, and a basic nozzle with on/off trigger.
That little hand pump would be a nice adder to the caddy!
Maybe they didn't do it on the 14gal caddy due to vapors / safety / atomization?
I see how it works for ya.. I thought about it being in my shed.. which it's floor is 1ft above grade.. will work great for the mower right till the end.
But the blower stays in my garage for the winter, and that tank is up real high, almost waist level. So I thought I'd be lucky to get out about 1/2 of that caddy , till the gas finds it's own level and wont come out.
Author: ramit
Date: 30 Nov 2006 3:03 pm
AJace wrote:
I still have the old style with the vent on the back. I've never used the newer style cans and never knew how they worked until Bob explained how they do. Bob, you're very good at explaining in my opinion. Some stores sell the gas nozzle the you screw on the front and pull the nozzle up which retracts back into the can when your done and screw the lid over it. Walmart sometimes has them. I wish they made a vent you could put in after drilling a hole in those new no vent cans and then just screw one of those pull out nozzles onto a no vent can and there you be.
Thanks AJace.
My old metal can has enough pitting around the where the nozzle flange seals to when you screw on the cap, it leaks bad when puring.
My one old plastic vented can still works well.
I'll have to check out wally world for those nozzles, thanks.
I did find old style replacement nozzles at the new ACE hardware that opened up, but as you pointed out.. Venting?? I thought about using brass fitting, but I'll never be able to engage the nut in the can to tighten it - never mind de-burring the inside area of the drilled hole. I'm afraid of self taping into the pastic or even using an epoxy with the self taping. I really want a nut on the other side.
Author: ramit
Subject: Re: Non vented gasoline can safety issues....
Date: 30 Nov 2006 3:09 pm
newjerseybt wrote:
I found this interesting company memorandum on the internet...
---------------------------------------------------------
This memorandum provides information .................
distribution to consumers. A bid sheet with an active rider has been circulated to interested jurisdictions.
Nice Article njbt...
Atleast we know we aren't just being picky.
Around here they still sell a normally vented can for kerosene.
But a new vent design can for diesel.
Use to be th kerosene and diesel cans were the same.
It's soo tempting to just use the kerosene can.. but it's just begging to be an accident.
I wonder if we'll see a rise in that sort of accident this heating season.
Author: dave___in___ct
Date: 30 Nov 2006 7:29 pm
Get the old-style gas can of your choice at a tag/garage sale for $1 ! 8)
Dave...
Author: Termy
Date: 30 Nov 2006 7:59 pm
Looks like its time for me to post these pics again...
Author: ramit
Date: 30 Nov 2006 8:08 pm
dave___in___ct wrote:
Get the old-style gas can of your choice at a tag/garage sale for $1 ! 8)
Dave...
Never thought about it.
Just missed the fall garage sale run.
I'll have to watch for spring and the moving sales.
Author: ramit
Date: 30 Nov 2006 8:10 pm
They don't sell ones that look like that around here Termy.
No caps at all.
Is the nozzle one solid peice?
Not that the hook is used to push down on a sleeve or anything?
Author: EGreen
Date: 30 Nov 2006 8:13 pm
ok me too:
Flee markets have some of the older ones sometimes.
My favorite can is still the big red round pancake type tank. Think it holds 2 or 2.5 Gallons. It actually might be as old as the mower since I can't remember a time when the lawnmower or snow blower wasn't refilled with it..speaking of that I think I should get it filled up since a storm is brewing.
The one to the right of it is my mix of 50:1. The first one on the right doesn't have a nozzle so its usually empty and the "ventless" is in my cars trunk in case I run out of gas (its empty of course but should i have to walk to a gas station its nice to not have to buy a can there.)
Author: ramit
Date: 30 Nov 2006 8:17 pm
I've got the same metal round one Egreen.
It must be 20 years old. The pitting on the metal, where the flange of the nozzle seals against, it just keeps leaking when I pour.
Other than that it was a great can, man.
Been through two new type, and they've been launched to the moon, P.O.S.
We don't have flea markets anymore. Where they use to have them, have been paved over and a Target. Wally World, or Kfart has been built!.
Author: Termy
Date: 30 Nov 2006 9:10 pm
ramit wrote:
They don't sell ones that look like that around here Termy.
No caps at all.
Is the nozzle one solid peice?
Not that the hook is used to push down on a sleeve or anything?
Nope that yellow thing is a twist on twist off cap. The hook just grabs onto the cap lip is all. I like the ventless gas cans cause you never spill with them and you don't have to worry about excess vapors causing a possible explosion while sitting. Only bad thing about these cans is that they poor slowly.
Author: ramit
Date: 30 Nov 2006 9:30 pm
I don't mind the slow pouring.
So that would be an improvement over what they sell here.
But they don't.
Author: EGreen
Date: 1 Dec 2006 8:11 am
ramit wrote:
I've got the same metal round one Egreen.
It must be 20 years old. The pitting on the metal, where the flange of the nozzle seals against, it just keeps leaking when I pour.
Other than that it was a great can, man.
Been through two new type, and they've been launched to the moon, P.O.S.
We don't have flea markets anymore. Where they use to have them, have been paved over and a Target. Wally World, or Kfart has been built!.
Tried some teflon tape? (plumbers white tape on it?).
Author: ramit
Date: 1 Dec 2006 5:20 pm
It's not the threads, but that top flat spot on the mouth of the can, and when it pitted, the plastic pitted or cut...
I can polish the can man, but the pastic has such deep dimpling.. I'd have to use some sort of sealer, but then it'll never come off.
Termy gave me a link on Amazon for the style can they sell in his area.
Which is a better option than the stuff they sell here since it doesn't have that stupid retracting sleeve.
The CARB version on the page is all they are allowed to sell in NY and Cali, and a few other states according to the page for the CARB version,
the others with the yellow cap are what Termy has, no stupid sleeve.
Blitz Gas Cans On Amazon
When bumming around amazon, found this page
for a 1/2 doze package of the old style cans.
It's like a dirty picture now.. Look at those vented Can's man!
Amazon page
But "no longer available"...
Found this one , pictures the old syle can and says it can't be sold to Cali..
UHM?? might have found NOS (new old stock).
I recognize the vent cap and spout, it looks like the replacement parts that the ACE hardware by me is selling.
It's for sale at....
Cool Stuff Cheap
Author: sonofjabba
Date: 2 Dec 2006 11:38 am
They still sell vented can in PA... I can ship anywhere in the world!
:twisted:
Just wet my beak! :D
Author: ramit
Date: 2 Dec 2006 1:27 pm
I've always loved PA.
Might have to take you up on that.
Tnx.
I'll have to wait and see what the next couple of weeks bring.
If I'm on NJ close to the boarder, I may try and take a run into PA before heading back to LI.
Author: newjerseybt
Subject: Safety cans in PA
Date: 2 Dec 2006 3:42 pm
The is one thing about PA that is very different than NJ is that PA State government if not so "in to your life". You are accountable for your own actions.
In Wayne County PA where I live, there is no air pollution check during car inspection. They figure it isn't worth millions to purchase equipment to harass a few folks that need a tune up.
In PA you can drive a motorcycle without a helmet, you can blow off your fingers with legal fireworks, you can burn leaves in the gutter or burn in a burn barrel, test fire your rifle in your backyard (try that one in NJ), get a permit to "carry" a weapon (sidearm), buy a convection kerosene heater at Home Depot in all Counties, you can pump your own gas.
NONE of the above in Jersey.
People were putting gasoline in their kerosene heaters and burning down buildings so many Counties banned the selling of kero heaters.
Just one time in 37 years, an off duty cop saw me pumping gas into my lawnmower gas can. He went ballistic and started yelling at me!!!
I said to him "Why are people in Jersey so much more dangerous than people in other States when pumping their own gas"?
He said the "law is the law...and if i were on duty you would get a summons".
I was ready to say, but didn't, "there is an old law on the books that says getting out of a drivers side door is illegal...go do your job." I figured I would be pressing my luck.
------------------
There was actually more to the story...The guy working the gas pumps had a "butt" in his mouth so I took charge rather than risk having my day ruined.
Those ventless gas cans force 100% of the fumes to be directed straight back at the person filling.
Author: mrmom
Date: 2 Dec 2006 9:06 pm
New Jesrsey.... what can I say? If I had a choice, I'd be out of here in a heart beat.
Here's a nice but pricey gas can:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200053144989&fromMakeTrack=true
Author: ramit
Date: 3 Dec 2006 9:25 pm
mrmom wrote:
New Jesrsey.... what can I say? If I had a choice, I'd be out of here in a heart beat.
Pat, it's been the same for me.
I use to like all things LI had to offer, but that was before the over development, loss of trails, changes in the outer beach laws after it became "popular" and over crowded, it was all good about 1.2m people ago.
Even though state politics were the same, there were some redeeming values.
It's just way too crowded to find those redeeming values anymore.
And everything else is buried under the feel good laws.
Author: dave___in___ct
Date: 5 Dec 2006 7:52 pm
Laws make "criminals"...
Dave...
Author: launboy
Date: 5 Dec 2006 8:44 pm
We also have one of those old metal "pancake" gas cans, but its just starting to leak so I still use it.
Author: ramit
Date: 8 Dec 2006 4:31 pm
Mail ordered this thing.
It's a real vented gas can.
The tank came with a tag "Briggs and Straton".
I guess their into private labeling and branding too.
I'll Fill it up tonight and try the pump this weekend when "un-pickling" the snowblower.