Forums Archive Index > Outdoor Power Equipment > Why Simplicity Snowblowers?

Author: dlubin

Date: 23 Nov 2006 11:35 pm

I was looking at the Simplicity pro models, and really love how solid they feel with their massive handlebars. Surprised they don't seem to have any kind of differential though... For what they charge (same or higher than Ariens) why would you pick a Simplicity over an Ariens? I'm leaning towards Ariens because they have more dealers in my area, and Simplicity seems to only have one -- and it's their first year carrying them. I love the solid feel of the simplicity, but don't like how it seems like it'd be tough to turn, and the price is pretty high.

Opinions?

Author: ramit

Date: 23 Nov 2006 11:45 pm

Welcome to the forum!

The Simplicities are just that, solid , simply built like a tank.
They are a sister company with Snapper, both now owned by Briggs and Sratton.

Snapper, Toro, Ariens, and Honda make great machines too.

Honda is in their own field with their own price and a great hydrostatic drive.

So the other four make up a nice higher end playing field and all good choices within a $100 - $200 of each other with in equivalent models.

They all each have their reason for doing what they do to approach the market in their way.

So pick the features you want/need/appeal to you.

NEXT, Support!
You don't get that from a big box store.
You do get that from a dealer you trust.

So it may come down to a certain model of an Ariens and picking the dealer you trust or that comes highly recommended that you know will be there in 5 years.
And the folks that work there and own it may/probably live in your neighborhood.

Look at the long term ownership of your investment. Even a great machine may need a part or some work. Stuff happens.

I have the trigger stearing on my Toro, it's GREAT. I have a lot of turning todo in my clean up. And it is a blessing with a machine that is 260 - 280lbs.

Author: NapalmDeath

Date: 24 Nov 2006 1:47 am

I went with Simplicity origionally because of my good relationship with my local dealer. I buy all of my OPE from him. Anyway, a frield also recently bought a new snowblower as did I. And because he also has a good relationship with his local Ariens dealer as does his Dad, he went to his guy for a new snowblower. At the risk of getting flamed here, I have to honestly say my machine seems a whole lot nicer and better made then his. Both are the same HP machines and similar size as well as price. Sorry Ariens guys, but that's my take on it. :shock:

Author: Majorxlr8n

Date: 24 Nov 2006 7:18 am

NapalmDeath wrote:
IAt the risk of getting flamed here, I have to honestly say my machine seems a whole lot nicer and better made then his. Both are the same HP machines and similar size as well as price. Sorry Ariens guys, but that's my take on it. :shock:

IMHO, you cannot go wrong with an Ariens. HOWEVER - if you want a true tank of a machine with ultra fine quality & are willing to spend a bit more $$$, a SIMPLICITY fills the bill! When I went to get parts for my Simp "twins", I looked at the new Simps. One word - WOW...

Marty

Author: ramit

Date: 24 Nov 2006 12:59 pm

Very nice looking machine.

The reason there's more than one brand on the market is cause none of them have or are what every person wants.

No dealers around me have them, so never got a chance to see / touch one in person. Which automatically knocked it out as a contender for me.

We all saw the announcement of Simplicity's new stick control for the chute. But I don't remember hearing that anyone has had a chance to try it.

(Unlike Ariens many of us got a chance to play with Ariens new arrangment at the big orange box.. and they were finicky, 99% at HD didn't work, some guys only found a few out of some that worked well at dealers. Seemed to be very dependant on proper setup).

How does the new Simplicity stick control work?

Best of luck, I know it'll serve you well.

Author: Dantheman
Subject: Re: Why Simplicity Snowblowers?

Date: 24 Nov 2006 1:22 pm

dlubin wrote:
I was looking at the Simplicity pro models, and really love how solid they feel with their massive handlebars. Surprised they don't seem to have any kind of differential though... For what they charge (same or higher than Ariens) why would you pick a Simplicity over an Ariens? I'm leaning towards Ariens because they have more dealers in my area, and Simplicity seems to only have one -- and it's their first year carrying them. I love the solid feel of the simplicity, but don't like how it seems like it'd be tough to turn, and the price is pretty high.

Opinions?

The Simplicity has the easy turn trigger. You pull it and turn.
It's so easy to operate that a lady named OrchidCrazy wheeled one around the showroom one handed with a toddler on her hip!

Simplicity's manuals are very detailed to the point that you can do all of the matainance yourself. Takes some time...but worth it.
This will be my 3rd season with a Simplicity 1170E and it has not let me down yet. It's a tank...

Dan

Author: EGreen

Date: 24 Nov 2006 2:19 pm

The simplicity pictured in this thread actually looks to built from some Ariens parts.

Author: NapalmDeath

Date: 24 Nov 2006 4:10 pm

EGreen wrote:
The simplicity pictured in this thread actually looks to built from some Ariens parts.
Which "parts" would they be?
Tires maybe??? If not that, maybe they both use the same type sparkplug.

Author: krislu

Date: 24 Nov 2006 7:22 pm

They do share some Generic parts but Ariens machines are starting to have more plastic than ever before and so far Simplicity seems to be still giving the consumer a snowblower built the old fashioned way, all metal, the way it should be (imo). - Kris :)

Author: Garandman
Subject: Re: Why Simplicity Snowblowers?

Date: 25 Nov 2006 3:08 am

dlubin wrote:
I was looking at the Simplicity pro models, and really love how solid they feel with their massive handlebars. Surprised they don't seem to have any kind of differential though... For what they charge (same or higher than Ariens) why would you pick a Simplicity over an Ariens? I'm leaning towards Ariens because they have more dealers in my area, and Simplicity seems to only have one -- and it's their first year carrying them. I love the solid feel of the simplicity, but don't like how it seems like it'd be tough to turn, and the price is pretty high.

Opinions?

It would be best to detail what specific models you are considering. For one example, The larger Simplicitys all have the "easy-Turn" wheel lock release - except the L8526E, which does not.

Author: EGreen

Date: 25 Nov 2006 7:38 am

NapalmDeath wrote:
EGreen wrote:
The simplicity pictured in this thread actually looks to built from some Ariens parts.
Which "parts" would they be?
Tires maybe??? If not that, maybe they both use the same type sparkplug.

Well the chute (and its components, looks like just differant mounting and handle location), tires, and rear frame all look identical to the Ariens pro models, bolt patterns on there look the same.

From other pictures I've come across the gear case and augars look identical to my Ariens.

With that said they both make snow blower somewhat near each other and it could be the same parts supplier for both for the little things.

I'm not sure where ariens is adding any plastic, the only piece of plastic on mine is covering the chute mechanism and the pulleys....ok the small shuvel is rubber.

With that said when I was doing my hunting for the right blower I did notice the Simplicity machine that I came across did have the previous mentioned parts in steel, that might be one of the corners they take to beat Simp in price (besides just sheer volume).

All in all we are really comparing two oranges to see which ones bigger :)

Heck if I could have found a Simplicity for $999 I probibly would have grabbed it, but at that price the 926LE is a great machine. The Simplicity dealer want 1500 for the 9 horse Simp (may have been 8.5? something comparable I remember).

That and I don't have to cross the grand island bridge to get to my dealer :)

I think we can all agree that Ariens and Simplicity both make the "closest" you can get to the old steel beasts like that of the Hahn Eclipse generation. But with that amount of time we have been able to make steel thinner yeat stronger, make it rust less and last longer, with time comes progress and for the most part with good service I can see my Ariens, just like all of you Simp owners, lasting a long time.

Author: OldToroOwner

Date: 25 Nov 2006 9:51 am

Napalm-
Can you give us a detailed description of how the chute mechanism works?....
I'm really interested in knowing how it compares to the Ariens, Toro, etc....
Thanks.

Author: mml4

Date: 25 Nov 2006 10:05 am

Hi Guys!
The Simplicity in the photo is the consumer model equivalent to the Ariens LE and not the top of the line.The top of the line is called the Pro Series the smallest of which is the 1052. MSRP around $1600. That machine is worthy of the name tank and is comparable to the Pro Series Ariens.

Two years ago I bought that model for my son when it was called the 1060DLXE. The machine is exceptional and lives up to it's reputation.
Last year my father replaced his 1960 single stage Simplicity with an Ariens 926LE.An exceptional machine as well.I don't think it's fair to compare the two because one is a Pro Model and the other is a consumer model.
If you compare Pro to Pro or Consumer to Consumer I think it's a toss up between Ariens and Simplicity. At that point price and service availability would dictate my choice. Don't forget to look at the Snapper Line which is identical to the Simplicity Consumer line and usually costs a few bucks less.
Marc

Author: Dantheman

Date: 25 Nov 2006 11:40 am

I think that we also discovered last year that the Simplicty Intek Snow engines 9 HP up to 12 HP were really all 12 HP engines with different HP stickers on them.

One reason the 9 HP blows snow like there's no tomorrow...

Author: NapalmDeath

Date: 25 Nov 2006 12:52 pm

EGreen wrote:
NapalmDeath wrote:
EGreen wrote:
The simplicity pictured in this thread actually looks to built from some Ariens parts.
Which "parts" would they be?
Tires maybe??? If not that, maybe they both use the same type sparkplug.

Well the chute (and its components, looks like just differant mounting and handle location), tires, and rear frame all look identical to the Ariens pro models, bolt patterns on there look the same.

Well, the Ariens I looked at shared absolutly nothing with my Simplicity besides the motors and maybe the tires as far as I could tell. There is no way the chute and frame are identical. That's ridiculous.

Author: Chris S

Date: 25 Nov 2006 4:20 pm

Many is the time I have driven by either a store or a home owner and had difficulty determining the brand of machine and I am a huge fanatic and fan of these machines. Many times the differences are fine. Now that said if you really get into the fine points there are potentially many pending brand and even between different models.
I have a neighbor that has his snowblower sitting out in front of his home. (Irritates me as he has a two car garage and I have had to leave my sweet Honda under a tarp for years that caused it to prematurely rust) I drove by if for weeks thinking it was a cheap type of machine. I pulled in his drive to pick up my son was visiting him and it was a Simplicity that was a few years old. I was shocked and now even more irritated as he is leaving this sweet machine sitting out.
It can be confusing at times.
C

Author: newjerseybt
Subject: Quality control check on Simplicity assembly....

Date: 25 Nov 2006 4:42 pm

Two weeks ago, I was at my local Agway store here in NE PA to check out the assembly and fit of the Simplicity models on display. Out of about 7 models on the store floor, I found that old style crank mechanism would bind at times on two assembled displays. Not the fault of the manufacturer but of the personnel who assembled these things. You would think you would try full chute rotation before putting them on display. The new style models were not yet assembled for my inspection.

The smoothest of the old style crank models that I tried over the years was the Honda. Maybe the tolerances are better than average in the worm assembly? The only drawback to the old Honda crank was that it was slow to turn the chute. The Ariens chute was not quite as smooth as it had less of a mechanical advantage but was very quick for a crank at 2.5 turns lock to lock.

I also noticed the new Arien's 2 stage models have a total rotation of 200 degrees as opposed to the older 2003 models which had 220 degrees of rotation. I found that the extra 10 degrees of rotation just pointed the chute more towards the operator. The electric chute has also been eliminated in all models including the 1336DLE for this year. This makes sense as the new chute control is pretty quick.

All of these "joystick type" of designs are fairly new. The true test of quality for these new designs will be decided over time as parts are replaced.

Author: Snowmann

Date: 25 Nov 2006 7:19 pm

NapalmDeath wrote:
EGreen wrote:
NapalmDeath wrote:
EGreen wrote:
The simplicity pictured in this thread actually looks to built from some Ariens parts.
Which "parts" would they be?
Tires maybe??? If not that, maybe they both use the same type sparkplug.

Well the chute (and its components, looks like just differant mounting and handle location), tires, and rear frame all look identical to the Ariens pro models, bolt patterns on there look the same.

Well, the Ariens I looked at shared absolutly nothing with my Simplicity besides the motors and maybe the tires as far as I could tell. There is no way the chute and frame are identical. That's ridiculous.

Napalm,

You are correct, there is not likely any shared parts aside from a bushing or hardware. Most major components (especially sheetmetal) are fabricated or custom tooled and not purchased by the OEM's as commodities. The exception on these new Simplicity models is the Murray derivative transmission (although it has been refitted with the Easy Turn on the 9.5hp and larger models). Note also, the "Easy Turn" feature is now located at the axle (versus the pinion shaft as on the Simplicity-designed transmissions). This is probably the result of having to design this feature around existing architecture.

PK

Author: NapalmDeath

Date: 26 Nov 2006 1:58 am

Snowmann wrote:
NapalmDeath wrote:
EGreen wrote:
NapalmDeath wrote:
EGreen wrote:
The simplicity pictured in this thread actually looks to built from some Ariens parts.
Which "parts" would they be?
Tires maybe??? If not that, maybe they both use the same type sparkplug.

Well the chute (and its components, looks like just differant mounting and handle location), tires, and rear frame all look identical to the Ariens pro models, bolt patterns on there look the same.

Well, the Ariens I looked at shared absolutly nothing with my Simplicity besides the motors and maybe the tires as far as I could tell. There is no way the chute and frame are identical. That's ridiculous.

Napalm,

You are correct, there is not likely any shared parts aside from a bushing or hardware. Most major components (especially sheetmetal) are fabricated or custom tooled and not purchased by the OEM's as commodities. The exception on these new Simplicity models is the Murray derivative transmission (although it has been refitted with the Easy Turn on the 9.5hp and larger models). Note also, the "Easy Turn" feature is now located at the axle (versus the pinion shaft as on the Simplicity-designed transmissions). This is probably the result of having to design this feature around existing architecture.

PK
Thanks, Snowmann. :wink:

Author: NapalmDeath

Date: 26 Nov 2006 2:10 am

OldToroOwner wrote:
Napalm-
Can you give us a detailed description of how the chute mechanism works?....
I'm really interested in knowing how it compares to the Ariens, Toro, etc....
Thanks.
I could try, but it is probably explained better then I could and with pics if you go to Simplicity's website and download the PDF format brochure of the Large frame models.

Author: krislu

Date: 26 Nov 2006 7:00 am

The shoot rotator gears on the Simplicity are metal. The last time I checked they were plastic on the Ariens.

http://www.simplicitymfg.com/documents/largeframe.pdf

Snowmann if this has changed for Ariens please let us know.

- Kris :)

Author: OldToroOwner

Date: 26 Nov 2006 10:11 am

NapalmDeath wrote:
OldToroOwner wrote:
Napalm-
Can you give us a detailed description of how the chute mechanism works?....
I'm really interested in knowing how it compares to the Ariens, Toro, etc....
Thanks.
I could try, but it is probably explained better then I could and with pics if you go to Simplicity's website and download the PDF format brochure of the Large frame models.

Napalm-
I guess I should have been clearer...what I meant was how well does it work in regards to the ergonomics, effort involved, smoothness..etc, as compared to Arien & Toro??...
Working it in the snow will be the real test, but what are your impressions thus far?
I would probably pay more money for the Simplicity if their chute works as well as either of the other two. I have alot of turning in my driveway, that is why I'm so interested!

Author: NapalmDeath

Date: 26 Nov 2006 12:57 pm

OldToroOwner wrote:
NapalmDeath wrote:
OldToroOwner wrote:
Napalm-
Can you give us a detailed description of how the chute mechanism works?....
I'm really interested in knowing how it compares to the Ariens, Toro, etc....
Thanks.
I could try, but it is probably explained better then I could and with pics if you go to Simplicity's website and download the PDF format brochure of the Large frame models.

Napalm-
I guess I should have been clearer...what I meant was how well does it work in regards to the ergonomics, effort involved, smoothness..etc, as compared to Arien & Toro??...
Working it in the snow will be the real test, but what are your impressions thus far?
I would probably pay more money for the Simplicity if their chute works as well as either of the other two. I have alot of turning in my driveway, that is why I'm so interested!
I have not tried the Toro and it seems to work smoother then the Ariens. The handle feels well in the hand, though I havn't tried it with gloves on yet. Works fast from side-to-side. Hard to descibe, but it almost has kind of a whippy feel to it. Maybe it has this feel due to it being low effort I'm not sure. My only compliant might be that I think it could have been a little closer to the operator. Like you said the real test will be with snow, but right now I'm impressed with it. I think it's going to work great.

Author: newjerseybt

Date: 26 Nov 2006 7:06 pm

krislu wrote:
They do share some Generic parts but Ariens machines are starting to have more plastic than ever before and so far Simplicity seems to be still giving the consumer a snowblower built the old fashioned way, all metal, the way it should be (imo). - Kris :)

Here is where I found plastic used:

I just checked out some Simplicities recently. Simplicity has 100% plastic in their wheel lock trigger control. Ariens uses metal.

Arien's has used plastic for their chute gears. Simplicity uses metal.

Toro also has plastic in their auger and wheel drive control grips, Joystick and impeller housing and chute. That was for 2005. I am guessing same setup for 2006.

Honda seems to use the least amount of plastic. I recall years ago seeing even metal gas tanks. In one of my previous topics the consensus was metal tanks were no good in the long run because of rust.

Author: ramit

Date: 26 Nov 2006 8:22 pm

[quote="newjerseybt"]Toro also has plastic in their auger and wheel drive control grips, Joystick and impeller housing and chute. That was for 2005. I am guessing same setup for 2006.[quote]

Also for the Toro, the two triggers for the steering are plastic.
The Power Max System chamber, which is the top part of the auger housing is plastic, not the entire auger housing.

From what I saw in HD, the Ariens metal trigger looked like a poured white pot metal.
From my experience, I'd take a good plastic over pot metal any day.
I've broken plenty of handles using such a material.


Plastics have come a long way, they can be naturally slick, plus they don't rust.
When is the last time you've broken an interior fender-well on your car or truck? Plastic bumper? (over course unless your in an accident, something more than a parking lot fender bender). The no dent doors and other "plastic" body panels?

Of course the automotive industry had to push it and started making intakes out of plastic with mixed results. Mating plastic to aluminum and steel, now having 3 expansion and contraction rates to seal, what a nightmare.

This is only my 2nd season with the Toro.. so I'll find out in the future. Others that have had the Toro longer than I, have had zero issues with Toro's plastics. And my experience with modern plastics have been better than with certain modern metal production processes.

Author: newjerseybt
Subject: Plastic components.....

Date: 26 Nov 2006 11:13 pm

My post was only to point out where snowblower manufacturers decided to use plastic in their designs. As someone pointed out earlier, perception is everything in sales.

Yes, the white metal parts of yesteryear. A nightmare when one of those broke. It seemed like epoxied broken plastic parts held better than epoxied white metal. Maybe white metal has also been improved?

Those new Xenoy Honda decks are a great example of the new technology. I wouldn't mind having the Honda HRx(?)217 mower.

Plastic hoods on tractors have been out for a while. I wonder how the hinges hold up at -15 degrees with engine vibration and frame twisting on the lower end models? (fatigue) I did see a few postings of tractors on other sites that had an engine fire with a plastic hood. They should make them fire resistant.

The plastic in my truck interior is lightweight, easy to maintain but I wonder about outgassing emissions expecially in a newer car or truck. On the other hand, I would still rather slam into the newer soft plastic dashboards then those metal designs of the 50s and 60s.

Author: EGreen

Date: 27 Nov 2006 8:22 am

newjerseybt wrote:
krislu wrote:
They do share some Generic parts but Ariens machines are starting to have more plastic than ever before and so far Simplicity seems to be still giving the consumer a snowblower built the old fashioned way, all metal, the way it should be (imo). - Kris :)

Here is where I found plastic used:

I just checked out some Simplicities recently. Simplicity has 100% plastic in their wheel lock trigger control. Ariens uses metal.

Arien's has used plastic for their chute gears. Simplicity uses metal.

Toro also has plastic in their auger and wheel drive control grips, Joystick and impeller housing and chute. That was for 2005. I am guessing same setup for 2006.

Honda seems to use the least amount of plastic. I recall years ago seeing even metal gas tanks. In one of my previous topics the consensus was metal tanks were no good in the long run because of rust.

My 05-06 Blower has either aluminum or steel gears for the chute system, plastic cover for them but the gears and components are all steel or similar. Also it may not be clear in the pictures but the operator panel is indeed steel or similar.

Also sorry but to me the Chute looks pretty close to the Ariens design, just differant places to mount the spring/up/down hardware, even the rubber cover with the pull tie that covers the exposed part of the line is the same:



It might be the same basic shape and its throwing my eyes off :P They all start to blur together I guess.

Author: newjerseybt
Subject: Plastic parts/ Chute design

Date: 27 Nov 2006 8:53 am

"My 05-06 Blower has either aluminum or steel gears for the chute system, plastic cover for them but the gears and components are all steel or similar"

That is interesting...the 2003 Ariens models used plastic chute gears which is why I was careful to say "Ariens used plastic" as opposed to "Ariens use plastic".
----------------

The newer chute designs all seem to be tall and tapered. Maybe to increase snow velocity? If tapering does increase velocity, science has known this for a long time which means there is no patent infringement. (IMO) Rubber boots are possibly outsourced which means they could come from the same supplier.

Author: NapalmDeath

Date: 5 Dec 2006 11:17 am

I looked at Cub Cadet snowthrowers yesterday while I was at Home Dupo and let me say that their chute control was the slickest I have tried so far. Works like a true joystick, that moves the chute side-to-side and also up and down. Then I went to Sears for a new garage door opener and while I was there I looked at a couple of their higher end model snowblowers and I would say that they look very similar to the Cub Cadets', with the same chute control, headlights, etc. Though I didn't try the controls on the Craftsman to verify the smoothness compared to the Cub Cadet. I would imagine that if the Cub Cadets work very smooth then the Toro's with the joystick control are ever better.

Author: ramit

Date: 5 Dec 2006 11:31 am

npd,
I tried a few of them at Sears, last year and this year, and they all worked well and very smooth.
Impressive enough for a cookie cutter machine.
I'd bet that they were made on the same line.
Just different paint and decals I'm guessing.