Honda HS35 Carb question.
Forums Archive Index > Outdoor Power Equipment > Honda HS35 Carb question.
Author: b00t
Date: 20 Nov 2006 6:21 pm
Hey guys awsome forum.
I have a question pertaining to a poor running Honda HS35. It uses a 3.5HP Honda G150 engine.
I bought the blower used last year, it ran fine the day I bought it, took it home then the first snow fall came and it ran ok. About half way through cleaning the driveway it started running like crap, and would not reach full throttle anymore. There is no throttle control on the unit, it just has a choke, and once you take the choke off, its supposed to reach full throttle, but it doesn't anymore, and the RPMs fluctuage and surge up and down.
It will backfire once in awhile too. It basically just wont stay running proplerly. Althought it wont stall out completely, it is no good to me running in this condition.
I have tried cleaning the carb a few times, with no luck. I have good gas flow, nothing is blocking delivery from the tank. I did a tune up, new oil, spark plug etc etc.
I took it in for service the other day and the guy said without even looking at the unit that it sounds like the carb needs rebuilding, that hes seen this thing before on my model snowblower he did a few weeks ago.
Does that sound like whats the problem to you guys? If so do you know where I can buy a rebuilt carb or carb rebuild kit online anywhere?
I rather buy new but I think they stopped making parts for my blower. Even if they have a similar carb that will bolt onto the head and run I would even try that as well.
Any help appreciated thanks.
This is what the carb looks like:
Author: robmints
Date: 20 Nov 2006 6:34 pm
Someone else will tell you how to really fix it.
Sure seems like carbs are available for around 60 bucks. Is there something different about your machine?
http://www.planopower.com/store/honda/g150.shtml
Author: Majorxlr8n
Date: 20 Nov 2006 6:45 pm
www.planopower.com, part # 16100-730-035, $54.70
Marty
Author: Majorxlr8n
Date: 20 Nov 2006 6:48 pm
b00t - IF you decide to clean it THOUROUGHLY, all those passages require a wire be run thru them. Then sprayed heavilly with carb cleaner. Then blow compressed air thru the holes. Repeat the process. As I mentioned to you on another forum, a GOOD, THOUROUGH carb cleaning should get you in shape!!!
Marty
Author: b00t
Date: 20 Nov 2006 7:11 pm
doh must have been searching for the wrong thing.
Thanks for the links. I am ordering tonight.
Author: b00t
Date: 20 Nov 2006 7:14 pm
on another note: I dont see a flywheel key on that page. Should all honda small engines use the same flywheel key? I was also suggested to check that out and make sure its not cracked or broken, but there is no listing on plano power.
Author: b00t
Date: 21 Nov 2006 8:48 pm
Ok looks like I found a couple places that sell the carb.
Seems its 16100-730-045
On the plano parts website they have 2 diff serial numbers on the carb for the G150 though, and the serial number on my G150 carb is nothing like the ones posted on Plano.
Mine starts off 25AAF7 or something like that, and the 2 models on plan are:
1335196
1335195
Any advice?
Author: robmints
Date: 21 Nov 2006 9:07 pm
I don't know b00t. I took the 1335xxx to mean the serial number of the engine. Hope you find one.
Author: b00t
Date: 21 Nov 2006 9:18 pm
thanks Rob, me too lol.
Man this blower has turned into more of a chore than anything. I have always wanted a blower since I was a kid (don't ask :D ) Finally I could afford my own and bought a used one last year, never even got it working 100%, so this year I wanted to make sure I can finally enjoy it.
I found the carb on 2lc.com and Plano Parts but both places seem to be more of a hassle to order in Canada. Hopefully I can get this going.
Author: AJace
Date: 22 Nov 2006 2:12 am
Could the serial numbers be different because they unit could have possibly been manufactured in Canada?
Author: b00t
Date: 23 Nov 2006 8:24 pm
Some good news.
I found the carb and gaskets at 2lc.com and ordered it. Should be shipped by next week.
It was a bit cheaper than planopower. I also emailed plano and asked about it, and since they were in Texas or somewhere Hot, they would have to order it as they dont keep them in stock :(
Author: rbr3
Date: 6 Dec 2006 11:01 pm
I have the same Honda HS35 with the same problem. How did the new card work out for you.
Author: rbr3
Date: 6 Dec 2006 11:02 pm
Sorry I mean carb not card!
Author: b00t
Date: 7 Dec 2006 6:53 pm
Will let you know in a few days. I ordered the carb about a week ago just waiting for it to arrive. It takes forever to arrive in Canada from the US :D
Author: rbr3
Date: 7 Dec 2006 8:13 pm
Thanks, I'll look forward to hear the results.
This weekend I'll pull the cover off and have a look and maybe try and clean the carb. I tried to buy a gasket kit here in MI but no one carries one. I'll have to order it. I'll also check the compression and my quess would be somewhere around 80-90 psid would be ok. Have you checked yours? I also put new rubber on the auger, new spark plug, changed oil, fresh fuel and it still only throws the snow about 4 feet. The owners manual says around 20. It just seem that it should throw it farther that that. We'll see.
Thank again
Author: b00t
Date: 7 Dec 2006 9:07 pm
Havnt checked compression yet.
Carb came in tonight in the mail, so Im excited to install it this weekend.
I too put new rubber on. Did all 3 major items. Auger, Scraper Blade, and Paddle. All new bolts and nuts as well.
I changed the spark plug, oil, fuel stabalizer etc all last year and never even used it cause I could never get it running right.
Author: b00t
Date: 9 Dec 2006 3:46 pm
Ok update.
Installed new Carb but with no success, back to square one, this problem is getting very irritating now.
Engine still runs like crap with choke OFF and backfires too. I can see slight grey smoke coming out of the exhaust which I assume is unburnt fuel.
Author: ramit
Date: 9 Dec 2006 4:02 pm
I had what I thought to be carb problem on my genset.
Turned out to be the spark plug.
Ran poorly, surging, backfire once in a while if I remember right.
Author: b00t
Date: 9 Dec 2006 4:21 pm
really? Hmm I might try that out.
Author: ramit
Date: 9 Dec 2006 4:29 pm
The carb wouldn't adjust right or hold an adjustment.
Drove me nutz.
Just about to take it all apart and clean it all again and get a new gasket set.
I even tried cleaning and re-gapping the old plug.. did matter.
Put a fresh one in there and that was it.
Author: b00t
Date: 9 Dec 2006 4:56 pm
ramit, appreciate the reply, but no luck with mine :(
I had a spare BPR4HS NGK plug that I forgot about (bought 2 brand new) and gapped it to 1.0MM and put it in and still no luck.
My old plug was really black and smelled of gas. It hasn't even been in there long. I used it about 15 min total last year.
Author: ramit
Date: 9 Dec 2006 6:24 pm
sorry. but worth a try.
air leaks in the carb somewhere?
Author: rbr3
Date: 10 Dec 2006 10:09 am
Well this HS35 problem sure is a challenge. Mine doesn’t have the same symptoms as your but it’s the same model. My machine would only throw the snow around 4 feet!!!
Last night I took the carb off and cleaned it and every thing looked ok. Re-installed it and ran the engine with the covers off so I could watch the linkages. When the choke opens there should be an increase in RPM and the governor should take over and limit speed to I think 3600 rpm. The arm on the left side of the crank case should move side to side hence moving the throttle plate govern ring the amount of fuel. I should also be able to vary the rpm by moving the arm manually. From what I’ve read the arm is connected to a flyweight and spool arrangement driven of the crank and the value of the flyweights governors the speed. As the engine slows down the flyweights move inward and move the spool that moves the arm, that move the linkage, that move the throttle plate, and increases the fuel flow. And when the speed increases the weights move outward and the reverse takes place.
As I was watching all this happening the governor arm was not moving at all at first so I manually moved it and the rpm followed. I manually moved this arm many times side to side and after this the motor started to behave at it should. My guess is the flyweights may have been hung up or the spool was not moving on the shaft.
Although it’s 40’s with no snow predicted for now I will look forward to the next time I can use the blower.
Did you have a chance to check the compression? I’ll try and check mine on Monday night and let you know what it is. I’ll check it cold and hot. The information should reveal that the top end is tight with no valve, head gasket, or ring problems.
PS All this information is a WAG for I have no formal training on this machine!
Good luck with yours.
Author: b00t
Date: 10 Dec 2006 11:52 am
rbr3:
Thats funny, on my engine when I take the choke off, the arm on the left will not move at all. It just stays put like its stuck or something. I tried moving it once and got the engine to rev up to full power and stay there for about 10 seconds that it idled back down again.
Author: b00t
Date: 10 Dec 2006 12:05 pm
to rbr3 and the others. Just wanted to thank you all for your help thus far. I really appreciate it. You guys go out of your way.
I will keep you update with what goes on. Its just hard sometimes to work on the blower when I have no motivation to go in the garage and freeze my nuts off to get it working :D
Author: mrmom
Date: 10 Dec 2006 2:27 pm
b00t wrote:
I will keep you update with what goes on. Its just hard sometimes to work on the blower when I have no motivation to go in the garage and freeze my nuts off to get it working :D
Do what Yukon did.... bring the blower into the kitchen. :D
http://www.opeonthenet.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3373
Author: b00t
Date: 10 Dec 2006 7:31 pm
2 hours later and the small single stage is completely gutted. Everything removed to take the engine out, what a pain in the bum.
Never again will I buy a single stage lol, 2 stage with exposed engine seems so much easier to work on.
But on a solid note, at least I can work on the engine in my heated basement. Will post pics later if anyone has any ideas on what to look for.
Author: rbr3
Date: 10 Dec 2006 10:28 pm
Did you have a chance to check the compression before removing the engine?
When you were moving the governor arm back and forth the rpm should have followed because the linkage is directly connected to the arm and the carb throttle plate.
I did talk to one of the Honda techs at a dealer last week and he told me that on this model that sometimes the flyweights would cause problems. I.e.; stuck spool, springs or whatever the mechanism that controls them could be not letting the arm move under load.
I’ve ordered an Engine Service Manual (eBay) for the G150 (and other models). Hope it will give me a better idea of the lay out of the engine. Pictures work for me. By the time it arrives you should have yours fixed.
Were you able to find a gasket kit for the engine?
Also, just a note. When I changed the rubber on the auger there were no collars that go in the hole of the rubber piece so that when you torque the retaining plate it doesn’t squeeze the rubber too much. I called the Honda parts desk and they wanted $2.00 each!!!!
I left them out. 24 collars = $48.00+ tax. Kind of high, really high!!! I see why there were no collars in it before.
Well hope you make some progress. Look forward to some pictures.
And pray for no snow!!
Author: b00t
Date: 10 Dec 2006 10:37 pm
rbr3 wrote:
Did you have a chance to check the compression before removing the engine?
When you were moving the governor arm back and forth the rpm should have followed because the linkage is directly connected to the arm and the carb throttle plate.
I did talk to one of the Honda techs at a dealer last week and he told me that on this model that sometimes the flyweights would cause problems. I.e.; stuck spool, springs or whatever the mechanism that controls them could be not letting the arm move under load.
I’ve ordered an Engine Service Manual (eBay) for the G150 (and other models). Hope it will give me a better idea of the lay out of the engine. Pictures work for me. By the time it arrives you should have yours fixed.
Were you able to find a gasket kit for the engine?
Also, just a note. When I changed the rubber on the auger there were no collars that go in the hole of the rubber piece so that when you torque the retaining plate it doesn’t squeeze the rubber too much. I called the Honda parts desk and they wanted $2.00 each!!!!
I left them out. 24 collars = $48.00+ tax. Kind of high, really high!!! I see why there were no collars in it before.
Well hope you make some progress. Look forward to some pictures.
And pray for no snow!!
no chance rbr3, no comp tester either.
It seems to have good compression by hand turning the flywheel, but thats just a guess as I have turned a few small engines before with good compression and it felt about the same.
I did notice throttle change when moving the governing arm back and forth, although it was picky, as it woulnd't increase the rpm right away, i would have to slowly move the arm and listen to the RPM to get it to speed up.
When you get the book can you see if theres any info in it on my problem as well?
Author: b00t
Date: 10 Dec 2006 10:38 pm
rbr3 wrote:
Did you have a chance to check the compression before removing the engine?
When you were moving the governor arm back and forth the rpm should have followed because the linkage is directly connected to the arm and the carb throttle plate.
I did talk to one of the Honda techs at a dealer last week and he told me that on this model that sometimes the flyweights would cause problems. I.e.; stuck spool, springs or whatever the mechanism that controls them could be not letting the arm move under load.
I’ve ordered an Engine Service Manual (eBay) for the G150 (and other models). Hope it will give me a better idea of the lay out of the engine. Pictures work for me. By the time it arrives you should have yours fixed.
Were you able to find a gasket kit for the engine?
Also, just a note. When I changed the rubber on the auger there were no collars that go in the hole of the rubber piece so that when you torque the retaining plate it doesn’t squeeze the rubber too much. I called the Honda parts desk and they wanted $2.00 each!!!!
I left them out. 24 collars = $48.00+ tax. Kind of high, really high!!! I see why there were no collars in it before.
Well hope you make some progress. Look forward to some pictures.
And pray for no snow!!
check them out
http://www.2lcstore.com/G150.html
Author: Majorxlr8n
Date: 11 Dec 2006 12:39 am
B00t - I just checked the engine parts list for an HS35 & noticed you may have a point ignition! You mentioned a black spark plug electrode, and a weak ignition can cause that. I would try to clean & regap the points. If you need a new points/condensor set, they run about $35 from Honda!
I wonder if a Tecumseh or Briggs/Stratton condensor could be substituted for the Honda one? They run about $4.
Marty
Author: b00t
Date: 11 Dec 2006 6:31 pm
Marty: appreciate the help.
Its funny you mention it, as a few weeks ago I won this auction on ebay for a set:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=017&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=270054040167&rd=1&rd=1
Im just going to buy a flywheel puller tonight to remove the flywheel and hopefully get this thing going.
Author: b00t
Date: 11 Dec 2006 11:07 pm
Ok here is some pics.
Heres an overall view of the engine.
This is the pic of the governor arm. I have my finger on it. When I had the engine running, this arm did not move at all, and was not controlling the throttle on the carb. I had to manually move it to get the speed to go up and down, but when I let go it would just slow back down again and backfire.
Here is a pic of the puller tool I am using to try and remove the flywheel, with no luck.
Author: Majorxlr8n
Date: 12 Dec 2006 6:45 am
Man is this thing a PITA!!! :lol:
Try tapping on the center bolt of the puller with a hammer while you have some tension already on the flywheel from the puller. Do you have the flywheel nut installed? If not, install it so that the threads don't get "boogered" up. You could try a small prybar & lift up on the flywheel, again while its under tension from the puller. Patience prevails here with the latter method - don't get over enthusiastic with removal or you could BREAK the flywheel!
Marty
Author: OldToroOwner
Date: 12 Dec 2006 9:37 am
b00t wrote:
Here is a pic of the puller tool I am using to try and remove the flywheel, with no luck.
I know this sounds simplistic....but try to soak it with PB blaster(if you haven't already done so :) )let it sit overnight..hit it again with some more and you steady, sharp taps(so it sets up a vibration) it should work.
Good luck.
Author: b00t
Date: 12 Dec 2006 6:38 pm
On the flywheel there is a symbol not to bang the flywheel with a hammer. Is it ok as long as I dont hit it that hard?
Up untill now I have just been using a rubber mallet to protect it.
Author: rbr3
Date: 12 Dec 2006 7:17 pm
b00t
If all else fails try some heat. A propane torch works well in some cases.
Keep us posted.
Author: b00t
Date: 12 Dec 2006 9:09 pm
Some good news.
I finally grew some gonads and used the impact wrench on the centre nut of the puller, and it finally popped loose with a little heat and lots of pressure, what a relief.
I was able to take apart the points and condensor, replace them and put it all back. Im just looking up to see if I can find some torque specs to torque the bolts to, or if it doesnt really matter.
I dont know if I should take apart the lower unit on the other side where the governor arm is in relationship to the crank. I wanted to see if what rbr3 mentioned applied, with the weights not working thus not making the governor arm move.
Author: rbr3
Date: 12 Dec 2006 11:43 pm
b00t
How did the old points look? Did you have any data to set the gap?
You have the engine torn down to this stage so it would be worth it to gain access to the flyweight and spool and inspect them. The flyweights and spool assembly must be able to move with the changing speed of the crankshaft to increase or decrease the throttle.
From your pictures it looks like there are some bolts on a side cover where the control arm goes into the case and you should be able to get to them under that case cover????
I wanted to add a picture of a flyweight, spool, control arm assembly but I am unclear as to how to add a picture to a post. How did you add the pictures?
I am looking forward to the manuals arriving this week (US Mail).
It has rained for three days now and melted all the snow, so sad!!!! Not!
Later
Author: b00t
Date: 13 Dec 2006 2:37 pm
rbr3: points looked pretty new. The cloth pad was a bit dirty though, and there was some stuff on the rod that connects the flywheel.
I have no data on how to set the points. I just put it back in the same spot I replaced it with.
As for the flyweights, they are on the other side. Under the flywheel is just the points and condensor, the other side where the governor arm there is a case that I am going to lift off and inspect.
Author: rbr3
Date: 13 Dec 2006 6:57 pm
b00t
I believe that you will need to check the point gap with a feeler gage. If this clearance is not within specification you may have more issues with the engine running properly. There should be a cam on the shaft and as it rotates the cam should open and close the points. I remember many years ago setting the dwell on car distributors with a meter. Same principle. The Honda shop should be able to provide this clearance or another member many have the information and post in.
Still waiting for the manuals and still trying to figure out how I can add pictures to the post. Help!
Author: robmints
Date: 13 Dec 2006 7:33 pm
For pictures you need a photobucket or similar web based account and upload to the photobucket and copy and paste the URL here. Or if you email me the pics i'll put them up for you.
robmints@qis.net
Author: ramit
Date: 13 Dec 2006 8:04 pm
rbr3 wrote:
I wanted to add a picture of a flyweight, spool, control arm assembly but I am unclear as to how to add a picture to a post. How did you add the pictures?
As Rob mentioned, you need to get them up on the web some how.
Easiest way is to get a free account at
www.photobucket.com.
They have all the tools built in to upload your pix. And it's free.
After you've uploaded your pix, in one browser you can have your photobucket account album , and in another browser window (or tab), the message your writing on here.
Under the pix in photobucket, it gives you three lines of code to choose from (each one in a different window).
The one labeled Img, is the one that works here, you copy and past the code (make sure you get it all) into the body of the message your writing here.
When typing your message it will look like something like this (your url and picture name will be different:
Then when you preview or submit your message, the pictures will appear.
Let Rob or I know if you need help.
-Bob
Author: b00t
Date: 13 Dec 2006 9:08 pm
rbr3 wrote:
b00t
I believe that you will need to check the point gap with a feeler gage. If this clearance is not within specification you may have more issues with the engine running properly. There should be a cam on the shaft and as it rotates the cam should open and close the points. I remember many years ago setting the dwell on car distributors with a meter. Same principle. The Honda shop should be able to provide this clearance or another member many have the information and post in.
Still waiting for the manuals and still trying to figure out how I can add pictures to the post. Help!
Heres a couple of pics.
On the crankshaft, there doesn't appear to be anything on it that would cause the points to open/close, at least from what I could see. It was all smooth around the crank.
Anyone have any specs on this engine?
Author: rbr3
Date: 13 Dec 2006 10:49 pm
b00t
First time try at uploading
This is a sample of what you should see on the other side of the engine
As for the points, rotate the shaft and at some point the points need to make and break, they have to for the ignition system to work
Nice photos by the way.
And to the other members, thank you for the help, I've join photbucket.
I'm in the soup now!
One of my dogs ate my camera cord so I'll pick up another one this weekend and post a picture of my HS35 (and the dog eating the cord!!)
Thanks all
[im
g][/img]
Author: Majorxlr8n
Date: 13 Dec 2006 11:13 pm
B00t - look just behind the keyway hole. There is a raised section on the crankshaft. This is known as an eccentric - it is "egg" shaped of sorts. When the crank turns, this high spot rubs against the BROWN contact pad on the points, which in turn opens the points. When you set the points, the contact pad must be on the HIGHEST part of this eccentric. Gap is probably .020" but I don't know for sure...
Marty
Author: b00t
Date: 13 Dec 2006 11:30 pm
ok got the cover off the other side...will need to make a new gasket cause the rubber one was rock solid.
Cover:
Setup:
Flyweights
Me pointing to a oddly shaped thin washer that I dont know which side it goes when the arm is back in place.
I also noticed a smaller washer that was in behind one of the bearings, just stuck to the wall. It had no purpose, so it was just floating around inside the engine there.
I took it out. Everything seems fine. Flyweights move freely, and the little slide mechanism moves back and forth fine.
Now what should I do about cleaning everything before I put it back in. I had a little bit of dirt on my fingers when I touched some pieces and I dont want to get the parts contaminated. Is there a spray down wash solution I can spray on all the components to clean them before I put the cover back on.
Author: b00t
Date: 13 Dec 2006 11:35 pm
Appreciate all the help thus far guys, great great bunch of folks here.
I just hope I can get er running again :D
Author: Majorxlr8n
Date: 14 Dec 2006 7:27 am
b00t - I use carb or brake cleaner to clean the internals. Make sure you wipe out ALL the debris & liquid. Then repeat. Get it CLEAN.
I noticed the timing chain has a bit of slack. A loose chain will affect valve & ignition timing. Maybe one of the experts can chime in here & say whether or not your chain looks too slack.
Marty
Author: rbr3
Date: 14 Dec 2006 8:24 pm
b00t
Received the engine manual today. It covers a few engines so tomorrow I can scan the pages for the G150 and e-mail a PDF file if you would like. It has some good stuff like the point adjustment procedure and torque values and such. I’ll try and have it to you mid day.
The flyweights don’t seem to have any springs so I would guess they are an inertia type.
Most likely after engine warm up you manually open the choke and the engine is supposed to run at 3600 PRM and if is slows down with a load the spool moves and the arm move the throttle for more fuel. WAG
Do you have a owners manual for the HS35. I downloaded one for the net at the Honda web site. If you want I’ll include it with the engine file.
Author: rbr3
Date: 14 Dec 2006 8:35 pm
boot
Just a thought. I’ve seen wave washers in gearboxes before and I believe they are to act as a preload or a separator from the shaft end and bearing. If there is any gearbox specialist out there maybe they could shed some light.
Were was that other washer that you were talking about?
Author: b00t
Date: 14 Dec 2006 10:09 pm
rbr3 wrote:
b00t
Received the engine manual today. It covers a few engines so tomorrow I can scan the pages for the G150 and e-mail a PDF file if you would like. It has some good stuff like the point adjustment procedure and torque values and such. I’ll try and have it to you mid day.
The flyweights don’t seem to have any springs so I would guess they are an inertia type.
Most likely after engine warm up you manually open the choke and the engine is supposed to run at 3600 PRM and if is slows down with a load the spool moves and the arm move the throttle for more fuel. WAG
Do you have a owners manual for the HS35. I downloaded one for the net at the Honda web site. If you want I’ll include it with the engine file.
thanks rbr3 Id really appreciate it.
The washer was sitting behind the top bearing in this pic:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/loudsubz/hs35/IMG_1405.jpg
It was right in the middle of the hole, stuck to the cover wall by the sticky oil. It was just flaoting in there because I would move it around with my screwdriver.
Author: rbr3
Date: 15 Dec 2006 8:55 am
b00t
Sent a copy of the Honda G150 Engine information to the hot mail address in your profile. Its a pdf file. It is good reading. Hope it helps.
Later
Author: newjerseybt
Subject: The tension mounts!
Date: 16 Dec 2006 11:29 am
I have been following this thread with great interest trying to learn something.
So far we have a 2 cycle SB engine that runs like garbage and a new carb does not help, points seem clean, plug was changed.
So what is left?
My 2 cents and others contributing.....
a) Is the capacitor good?
b) Is the coil good?
c) Was the point gap correct?
d) Is the timing chain too loose per Marty?
e) Did the chain slip a tooth? (check timing mark)
f) What do the valves look like? (opening correct amount and sealing?)
g) Is there an air leak because of worn clearances causing carb not to suck in gas properly? (such as engine bearing seals...wild guess)
h) Is there a magnet coil gap and is/was it set properly.
i) Was there slop in flywheel keyway?
j) Were dry rotted hoses changed on the gas tank which may let air get inside but not leak gas? (wild guess # 2)
Me? An OPE expert..No way!...."but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night". lol (TV commercial)